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[Max White]

Ah, I didn't notice. The fault is mine, I should have read a little more carefully.

Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?

I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.

You should remember that these are seasoned professionals in a beginners game, I don't think they care that much about winning, but would rather get us all up to scratch to help enrich the game across the forum. I plan on taking their advice to heart.

Hint: The scum IC is not playing. The IC's who are playing have a 2/9th chance of being scum, like any other person.

Ah, good to know!

[Jim Groovester]

Jim Groovester I plan on playing more now that I atleat have a basic understanding of the strategies to play, before i'd just get nervous and stop playing all together.

Words are nice, but I really want to see actions instead.

So when are you going to start taking actions?

[breadbocks]

breadbocks: You were in the last beginner game I played, and I've seen you play others, how do you consider yourself a beginner still, and what do you believe you need improvement at that would constitute you still being in a Beginner game?
 -If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?

I am entirely bad at Mafia, with no natural talent, which means I have to spend that much more time learning. If you paid attention to the games I was in, you'd see how abominable my play was. I need to work on learning how to scumhunt in a way that makes the effort I'm putting into it visible to others.
Were I the doctor, in this particular style, I'd pick one of the ICs, since ICs are almost always targeted first by scum, an d in this particular lineup, at this point in time, I'd pick Vector, since I know the way she scumhunts would be a lot more effective at catching beginner scum than Jim's.

Vote Jim, who, of the nonICs would you be most worried about being scum, and why?

[Bdthemag]

Kilakan So, when do you think the RVS stage will end?

[Think0028]

Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?

1) It doesn't make the mafia win faster, actually: if you work it out, you'll find the only difference between lynching day 1 and not lynching is that there's 1 more person at every stage, and the game ends at the exact same time as it would otherwise.
2) That's what extensions are for. If I really don't know what's going on, I'd vote to extend the day and keep talking.

[Max White]

Hey look, Jim is on.
Jim: Do you think random voting time has any advantage over just random question time?

[Jim Groovester]

Vote Jim, who, of the nonICs would you be most worried about being scum, and why?

Think0028, because he's the best of the bunch (I have no idea why he joined up for this game). If anyone can play a decent scum game it's going to be him.

However, players who self destruct easily under pressure are also worrisome, because it's not clear if they're town or scum from the reaction. Players like Powder Miner, at the very least. If there's anybody else, I haven't seen them do it yet.

It's a tricky dance, judging whether a new player is being new or being new scum.

Hey look, Jim is on.
Jim: Do you think random voting time has any advantage over just random question time?

Yes. A vote always carries weight, even if it ultimately leads to nothing. It gets speedier answers to questions than without it.

[UltraValican]

@ kikilan I would only think that it would be a good idea to lynch an IC if  someone had a good reason to beilieve that he/she was  scum
@ kikilan, if which one of the ic's are you most worried about being scum (if your worried at all)
@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words

[Max White]

@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words

A player who can afford to ignore IC's here, might have a scumchat to get advice from. Somebody acting out of line with what the IC's are saying, but still doing well, could be getting advice from a scum IC.
Although that was an assumption based on when I was under the impression there was at least one scum IC, and Darvi came to clear that up.

[Bdthemag]

Jim Groovester how do you imagine the game is going to play out compared to the last few Begginer games you IC'ed in?

[Jim Groovester]

@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words

A player who can afford to ignore IC's here, might have a scumchat to get advice from. Somebody acting out of line with what the IC's are saying, but still doing well, could be getting advice from a scum IC.
Although that was an assumption based on when I was under the impression there was at least one scum IC, and Darvi came to clear that up.

There is no player who can afford to ignore the ICs.

Jim Groovester how do you imagine the game is going to play out compared to the last few Begginer games you IC'ed in?

They're all pretty identical, at least in terms of how I see it.

Plenty of opportunity to teach people. The only difference is in how much teaching is needed or not.

Town won the last BM. That was different from usual, I guess.

[Vector]

Hey, kiddos.

I prefer to teach by example.  Therefore, I am going to provide you a tutorial in how to create a case on someone.  If you have any questions, then feel free to toss them about.  I'm better at answering questions after they're asked than I am at anticipating them preemptively.

On the other hand, I like answering questions.  So you got lucky.

This is the first time I've acted as a playing IC, though, so please bear with me as I get around to things like "learning to put things in my IC voice rather than my game-playing voice."  Shouldn't take more than an RL day, though, so bother me if I screw up any longer than that.

UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?

-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?

Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others.  This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment."  In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them.  Identify themselves as the same team, as it were.  So: buddying.

UltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.

Notice people trying to start a fight and declare suspicion for non-suspicious things.  This is also called town direction, usually performed with a dish of sidelining.

In this instance, perceive attempts to create a situation in which OMGUS-wars are occurring.

The game just started. I am suspicious of no one at all.

I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy.  I have a FoS on you.

. . . Righto.

Examine reasoning.  "Your behavior was suspicious because it was suspicious.  You did not ask questions of your questioner because you wanted to avoid being questioned."  Mark that down in the "bullshit" column, under the other entries.

Note (casually) the lack of vote on the theoretically scummy target.

Perceive increase in run-on sentences, often a sign of anxiety.

Note painting of a poor question and noobish scum-hunting behavior (despite ignoring the hunt of others) "reluctance," rather than "inability" or "failure."  The language is loaded.

I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.

Again: undermining the biggest town asset and pitting the ICs against each other.

MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?

For someone who is ragging on someone else for asking bad questions, he asks some pretty terrible questions.

Also seems to have a weird thing for talking to Max White, without showing any interest in the answers.

I was pressuring you, and I will continue to pressure you, just because it's the first day and there's not many posts is not any reason to be slack, the more you know about a person the more likely it is that town can get the correct lynches. 
With the town and mafia IC's and since we know who the IC's are, if I was mafia, I would know who the Mafia IC is and as such I would know who the townie IC is, and while it may sound like a good idea to take out the Town IC since they are the most experienced player, I would avoid that initially, instead I would kill the person who proves to, while not be exactly the best player, is probably the second best and is the person asking the best questions, just not getting anyone to listen yet.  I would leave the better few, just to leave in the possible suspition that they could be Mafia, and if they lynch a townie, then it's all likily the town will lynch them next, so if you leave the betters, they will take out themselves.  You would also not want to take out the worse, since they are possible fall-back people that you could draw false suspicion onto.  anyways that's my cyclical thought on killing as scum.
UltraVatican-Would you think it could be a good idea to lynch an IC, since it's 50% likely we could get the scum IC?

Holy mother of Batman, that's a lot of run-on sentences.

Also, the usual issue with folks nudging other folks to consider lynching them gosh-darned ICs off the planet.  Because they might just give bad and misleading advice, as they've sworn not to do.  Hurm.

Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?

Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.

Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?

And... what looks like working with Max White in order to pressure for no-lynches D1 if one isn't "sure."

Here's a lesson about mafia, dudes.

You are pretty much never sure.  You take your best guess, smear some questions, make some cases, do some reading, and hope for the best.  If your case is shit and you can't prove jack, you abandon it and look for someone else.  You play hardball.  You look for folks tailing you, and for folks smearing you.  You look for manipulators.  You look for quiet people.  No matter what, you have to be utterly focused on your goal at the same time as you keep your mind open to other interpretations.

Mafia is a game of insight.

It is also a game of ruthless rhetoric.  Whether you're scum or town, you need to pay attention to your words, and how you say them.  Those who are too concerned with this will tend to look self-preserving.  However, it is important to pay attention to how you come off.  This is where my theory breaks from Dakarian's, who thought that townies will tend to drop scumtells and not care.  I personally believe that you should care, and notice, and remove them wherever they are not necessary.  If someone votes you and you think they're scum, hammer them down with a great case and say "fuck you" to the guys who say you're OMGUSing.  If you think you can make someone slip up, then yeah, stretch the evidence a little bit in order to add some more pressure.  Your goal is to get the scum through whatever means necessary.  Your goal should also be to minimize town suspicion on you to the absolute necessary amount.

Take risks, and then accept the consequences of your actions.  Do the very best you can.  This game is never clear-cut, and never will be, so do your best to follow the guidelines when helpful--and don't be afraid of ignoring them when you have the scum by the tail.  That's the best way to support the town.


Final step:

Vote the object of your suspicions.

In this case: Kilakan.


I'm going to add here that I made an odd choice in the above passage.

Because I used language targeting the reader, rather than addressing the target, it could be said that I was attempting to shift the reader's suspicions to the target in a manipulative sort of way.  I would find this questionable if someone else did it while paired with a lot of other things.

On the other hand, one does, generally, need support for one's suspicions.  One does not suspect and accuse in a vacuum.  Dakarian typically went so far as writing a big, long appeal to the rest of the players at his endgame.

So, please note here: the process of creating a case should be noted, and in the future you can expect the vast bulk of my cases to be addressed to the target.

However, there are some good reasons to address the other players, instead of the target.

First, the target may see the entire town as opposed to him, rather than simply one very, very bullheaded IC.  This can create more pressure.

Second, inviting the rest of the players to examine a target can help trap folks looking to hop on a bandwagon train or buddy up.  This must be done carefully with supplemental questioning for anyone you catch.  If your questioning is shallow or cursory, you're just creating more false waves of suspicion for the scum to play with--you screw up both yourself and whoever you're questioning.


Let's do our best to make this a good game.

[Vector]

Fuck, I didn't get this in the post.

Don't edit your posts, even if you can slip under the edit-without-a-timestamp-margin.

Vector: How are you feeling about the game? Think you stand a good chance to win?

Fine, and of course.  I'm an IC.  The hard part of this game will be attempting not to piledrive the newbies and, you know, be more useful/transparent than tricky.

I'm answering this question honestly, of course.  Players should generally strive to be as honest as possible.  That goes for both scum and town.

Also note that Max's question is basically bullshit.

Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?

FOS (finger of suspicion--check the mafia terminology guide!) for attempting to disseminate fear.  Specifically, fear of the teachers' guidance.

Well, also for asking loads and loads of bullshit questions in an attempt to appear active.

[Bdthemag]

I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy.  I have a FoS on you.

You seem to be overreacting, atleast in my opinion. You scold someone for asking a question of who they think is suspicious at the beggining of the game. Then you say he is doing minimal scum-hunting to ward of suspicion. This is the beggining of the game, its the RVS. Not alot of scumhunting can be done until someone say's something stupid.

[Jim Groovester]

Well, also for asking loads and loads of bullshit questions in an attempt to appear active.

Hey, now. Baby steps.

Not everyone's going to be instantly awesome at mafia, and I'd rather encourage people to be active and ask questions, even if the questions aren't all that great, than immediately cast them down and berate them for their quality.

Actively asking questions is a fantastic trait to see in a new player.