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[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't think this actually has anything to do with gay marriage, we just went off on a tangent.

So, why then do married couples get extra benefit from the law?  Shouldn't we be fighting to remove said benefit so that gay/straight/single relationships won't matter from a federal/legal standpoint?

Because it's harder to be married than it is to be single and so they need the benefits, but that would be restarting our argument from the top of the last page.

[Andir]

I don't think this actually has anything to do with gay marriage, we just went off on a tangent.

So, why then do married couples get extra benefit from the law?  Shouldn't we be fighting to remove said benefit so that gay/straight/single relationships won't matter from a federal/legal standpoint?

Because it's harder to be married than it is to be single and so they need the benefits, but that would be restarting our argument from the top of this page.

Yeah, and I think it's still harder to have a pool than to not have a pool so I see no reason to have a special benefit for being married.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not sure why you want to equate relationships and social contracts to objects.

[Andir]

I'm not sure why you want to equate relationships and social contracts to objects.

They are both optional and personal choices.  They are both not required to sustain society, country, or species.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not sure why you want to equate relationships and social contracts to objects.

They are both optional and personal choices.  They are both not required to sustain society, country, or species.

No, but people like to engage in it on a large scale, and it stresses their quality of life. This will lower the overall quality of life in society if not compensated for in some way. I also live society, and I enjoy it being better rather than worse, so I support married people getting benefits.

[GlyphGryph]

Because it's harder to be married than it is to be single and so they need the benefits

I'm... not buying this. Pooling resources with another person makes life, like, twice as easy. It's sort of the same benefit as having roommates, but very much moreso and without many of the drawbacks, plus the potential benefits from effective distribution of labour based on skills. You also get an extended familial safety net, and all the benefits of recognition by society, and we have yet to even touch on any of the legally granted benefits!

I just don't understand how someone could think being single would be easier - you do realize that people got married, like, all the time, long before there were federal benefits for doing so right?

[Andir]

I would argue being single is harder.  Higher insurance rates (usually), having to take care of yourself when you are sick, not being able to go to the store when sick so planning ahead is required, having to rely on friends more often, having to foot the bill for the entire mortgage/rent if you live alone...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I just don't understand how someone could think being single would be easier - you do realize that people got married, like, all the time, long before there were federal benefits for doing so right?

You do realize that life wasn't so happy back then, right? Even if it is easier to be married, I'd still support the benefits even though I never plan on getting married, for reasons stated in my previous post involving societal quality.

having to take care of yourself when you are sick, not being able to go to the store when sick so planning ahead is required,

It's not that hard to take care of yourself when you're sick, and that doesn't prevent you from going places and getting things done unless the sickness is serious, it just sucks to do so.

[Andir]

It's not that hard to take care of yourself when you're sick, and that doesn't prevent you from going places and getting things done unless the sickness is serious, it just sucks to do so.

Thus lowering my quality of life... isn't that your argument?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's not that hard to take care of yourself when you're sick, and that doesn't prevent you from going places and getting things done unless the sickness is serious, it just sucks to do so.

Thus lowering my quality of life... isn't that your argument?

Occasional illnesses are currently unavoidable. Please check back with Science™ at a later date. Also, I'd hardly classify most of the things you'll catch in developed nations these days as being able to lower your quality of life in any meaningful way. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with the marriage thing, unless you think marriages cause viruses to mutate around our immune system.

[GlyphGryph]

for reasons stated in my previous post involving societal quality.

Can you restate these, then? I'm having trouble actually finding them. How does giving financial/other benefits to married couples improve society?

Occasional illnesses are currently unavoidable. Please check back with Science™ at a later date. Also, I'd hardly classify most of the things you'll catch in developed nations these days as being able to lower your quality of life. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with the marriage thing, unless you think marriages cause viruses to mutate around our immune system.

What are you even going on about here? He's saying that marriage (or at least things like marriage) make dealing with illness easier. Do you think they don't? Seriously? Because I've been sick, really sick, when single. And I've been sick, really sick, when not. The two experiences are not exactly comparable in unpleasantness, which was his point, I think. Maybe you're one of those lucky people who have never BEEN really sick (or who have a whole ton of health insurance so you can pay someone to take care of you for the entire time), but that "social safety net" of having someone there to care for you is definitely a benefit, and I... can't understand where you're trying to take it with this last quote.

[Andir]

I can tell you from experience that it's not exactly a favorable experience getting your wisdom teeth removed and not having someone there to keep an eye out for drug interactions or you falling and smashing your face into a wall trying to get something to eat.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Can you restate these, then? I'm having trouble actually finding them. How does giving financial/other benefits to married couples improve society?

Premise: I like living in the best possible society.

Point One: There are a lot of married people in my society.
Point Two: Lots of people having an easier time of things can improve society as a whole.
Point Three: Married people get benefits that make their lives easier, allowing them to better contribute to society.
Point Four: Society improves. I live in society. My life improves.

Conclusion: Providing benefits for married people indirectly makes my life better.

What are you even going on about here? He's saying that marriage (or at least things like marriage) make dealing with illness easier. Do you think they don't? Seriously? Because I've been sick, really sick, when single. And I've been sick, really sick, when not. The two experiences are not exactly comparable in unpleasantness, which was his point, I think.

Then he can get married if he wants to be taken care of while sick. Doesn't really make a difference to me either way.

Maybe you're one of those lucky people who have never BEEN really sick (or who have a whole ton of health insurance so you can pay someone to take care of you for the entire time), but that "social safety net" of having someone there to care for you is definitely a benefit, and I... can't understand where you're trying to take it with this last quote.

I don't even know if either of my parents have any health insurance, truth be told. I generally just try to deal with whatever illnesses I catch, and they haven't required a hospital yet. In fact, the only time I've ever been to a hospital outside of my birth was to check for a cause to some sudden, extreme chest pain that persisted for several hours and vanished on the car ride to said hospital. The doctors there were as useless as I've becomed accustomed to them being over the years, and charged a fairly large sum to tell me they didn't have a clue what my chest pain meant.

I can tell you from experience that it's not exactly a favorable experience getting your wisdom teeth removed and not having someone there to keep an eye out for drug interactions or you falling and smashing your face into a wall trying to get something to eat.

Well, since I'll more likely than not be doing that by myself in around three to five years, I'll tell you how it goes. I certainly won't be eating while it heals, if your experiance is anything to go by. Probably for the best, it seems like it would be easy to get an infection that way. Hell, it can't be all that different from the aftermath of non-surgical tooth removal. I mean, the aftermath of non-surgical tooth removal sucks horribly in every way I can think of, but it's not unbearable.

[Johnfalcon99977]

Just dropping that If Palin runs, Obama will win by land slide.

If Palin wins... Well, I guess its time to learn Italian.

Also, I found Obama a medicore president. He wasn't good, but he CERTAINLY was not really bad. I'd vote for him again if the person running againist him was either completely stupid and had no idea how politics work (Sarah Palin, I'm looking at you.) or had "Bush II" written all over him.

Edit: You also have to cut him a break, I mean, with the entire Republican party having a policy to say NO to anything he tries to pass.

[Andir]

I can tell you from experience that it's not exactly a favorable experience getting your wisdom teeth removed and not having someone there to keep an eye out for drug interactions or you falling and smashing your face into a wall trying to get something to eat.

Well, since I'll more likely than not be doing that by myself in around three to five years, I'll tell you how it goes. I certainly won't be eating while it heals, if your experiance is anything to go by. Probably for the best, it seems like it would be easy to get an infection that way. Hell, it can't be all that different from the aftermath of non-surgical tooth removal. I mean, the aftermath of non-surgical tooth removal sucks horribly in every way I can think of, but it's not unbearable.

You'll be put on three meds most likely, Painkiller/Anti-Inflamatory/Anti-Infection.  Unfortunately, the combination of the three caused me to pass out if I stood for too long.  They allow you to eat soft foods in small portions.

Oh, and have you ever heard of "Correlation is not Causation"  Just because there are a lot of married people and they get benefits does not mean that's the cause of your better society.