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[freeformschooler]

Stop calling the other side of the political spectrum idiots and bigots.

I'm not calling the entire spectrum idiots and bigots. Quit getting mad over things that never happened.

Do me a favor though, start calling out the idiots and bigots running abound in the republican party. That's the issue and why I and many others have been steered from independent to moderate liberal democrat.

This part of your post is extremely confusing. Nikov says to stop calling one side (the other side) of the spectrum idiobigots, and you say that you're not calling the entire spectrum idiobigots, which is not what he said at all.

[Andir]

What?! Everybody knows the Founding Fathers had a strong Christian faith and prescribed the American system of morality into the Constitution! Just look into the subtext and you can clearly see sodomites condemned by the framers!

Obviously, and if I'm to believe Glenn Beck:  Jefferson thought that way as well!

It speaks volumes for freedom of choice that they'd even put that Right in the Bill.  If they were strictly looking to enforce Christian faith the US Constitution would look more like some of the the States Constitutions where "belief in a higher power" would be required to hold office. (Yes, I know they are "blue laws" so we don't need to go there again.)

[nenjin]

Blue laws are state and local for the most though aren't they?

[KaelGotDwarves]

You insinuated everyone from the Republican leaders to the Tea Party members and pretty much anyone that doesn't agree with your position.  (edit: You didn't name names, so we assume you are referring to the entirety.  If you are going to pinpoint individuals, fine.  Just don't generalize.)

There's a difference between calling everyone an idiot and a bigot and saying the Republican Party is going down the drain because they're associated with idiots and bigots

I am certainly not calling you and Nikov idiots, and I do respect your opinions. However, I do say it would be wise for you and the Republican Party to continue distancing themselves from others. The ludicrous idiots on the far right are drowning out people like Nikov

I do apologise if that miscommunication made it seem as though it was a personal attack.

This part of your post is extremely confusing. Nikov says to stop calling one side (the other side) of the spectrum idiobigots, and you say that you're not calling the entire spectrum idiobigots, which is not what he said at all.

Read into it.

[Aklyon]

This is getting confusing.

[freeformschooler]

This part of your post is extremely confusing. Nikov says to stop calling one side (the other side) of the spectrum idiobigots, and you say that you're not calling the entire spectrum idiobigots, which is not what he said at all.

Read into it.

Clearly, I'm still missing something.

This is getting confusing.

QFT.

[Andir]

Blue laws are state and local for the most though aren't they?

Yes.  That's why my comment followed the State remark.  They got accepted into the books, but they'll never hold up to the higher court.  I wish they could all be stricken from the record though.  It gives people (like Beck) [false] ideas to the intent of documents crafted in the same time frame.
Also, I'm not Republican.  I'm registered Libertarian, but I vote for the person that most defines my viewpoint even if it's not a Libertarian candidate.  I had tossed up registering Constitutional or Libertarian, but I fall more in line with freedom of overall choice and I think Constitutionalism is a bit narrow for my personal tastes.  Great for a Federal level mindset, but I don't just vote on the Federal level.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Constitution Party is a reactionary group if I've ever seen one. Here are some of their stated policies:

Spoiler: Warning: May Contain Insanity (click to show/hide)

The party's goal as stated in its own words is "to restore our government to its Constitutional limits and our law to its Biblical foundations."

The party puts a large focus on immigration, calling for stricter penalties towards illegal immigrants and a moratorium on legal immigration until all federal subsidies to immigrants are discontinued.

The preamble of the Constitution Party platform "gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States,"and supports the Constitutional provision in Article VI, Section 3 that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" and calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with them in the pursuit of their goals.

The Constitution Party supports reducing the role of the United States federal government through cutting bureaucratic regulation, reducing spending, and replacing the income tax with a tariff-based revenue system supplemented by excise taxes. Its leaders are among the strongest advocates of abolishing most forms of federal taxation, especially the income tax; they view most current regular federal expenditures, such as those for health care, education, and welfare, as unconstitutional under Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution and the
Tenth Amendment.

The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution does grant Congress the power to "lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration," however, the party disputes the validity of the Amendment's ratification.

The party supports paying off the federal debt through a systematic elimination of further borrowing, programs, and agencies it considers unconstitutional such as the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services.

The party opposes foreign aid, asking that no further funds be appropriated for any kind of foreign aid program, and encourage the idea that the United States terminate its participation in international lending institutions, such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and the Export-Import Bank. It also urges the government to immediately terminate all subsidies, tax preferences, and investment guarantees that encourage U.S. businesses to invest in foreign property; and to seek to collect all foreign debts owed to it.

The Constitution Party favors a noninterventionist foreign policy. It advocates reduction and eventual elimination of the role the United States plays in multinational and international organizations such as the United Nations, and favors withdrawal of the United States from most current treaties, such as North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), and the World Trade Organization.

The party opposes illegal immigration and also seeks stricter controls on legal immigration. It demands that the federal government restore immigration policies based on the policy that potential immigrants will be disqualified from admission to the United States on the grounds of ill health, criminality, low morals, or financial dependence, believing that they would impose an improper burden on the United States, any state, and citizens of the United States. The party has stated a long term goal of a moratorium on future immigration, exempting extreme cases where it would be necessary.

Additionally, it opposes welfare subsidies and other taxpayer-supported benefits to illegal immigrants, rejecting also the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship on children born to illegal immigrant parents while in this country (jus soli). It also rejects any extension of amnesty to illegal immigrants. The Constitution Party calls for the use of U.S. troops to protect the states against an influx of illegal immigrants.

The party opposes euthanasia and abortion including in cases of rape and incest.

The party supports the ability of states to administer the death penalty to those convicted of "capital crimes":
"Our support of a State's option to impose the death penalty is limited to those who have been convicted of capital crimes. This is consistent with protecting innocent life because the death penalty would only be applied to those who have proven to be a threat to innocent life."

The party opposes same-sex marriage, and believes state and local governments have the right to criminalize "offensive sexual behavior".

The party further opposes pornography, believing it to be, at worst, "a destructive element of society resulting in significant and real emotional, physical, spiritual and financial costs to individuals, families and communities," distinguishable from the American citizen's "cherished First Amendment right to free speech."

The party supports English as the official language for all governmental business, opposes bilingual ballots, and insists that those who wish to take part in the electoral process and governance of the U.S. be required to read and comprehend basic English as a precondition of citizenship. The party also opposes the federal Voting Rights Act, which prohibits literacy tests as a requirement for voting.

[freeformschooler]

The Constitution Party is a reactionary group if I've ever seen one. Here are some of their stated policies:

Spoiler: Warning: May Contain Insanity (click to show/hide)

The party's goal as stated in its own words is "to restore our government to its Constitutional limits and our law to its Biblical foundations."

The party puts a large focus on immigration, calling for stricter penalties towards illegal immigrants and a moratorium on legal immigration until all federal subsidies to immigrants are discontinued.

The preamble of the Constitution Party platform "gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States,"and supports the Constitutional provision in Article VI, Section 3 that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" and calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with them in the pursuit of their goals.

The Constitution Party supports reducing the role of the United States federal government through cutting bureaucratic regulation, reducing spending, and replacing the income tax with a tariff-based revenue system supplemented by excise taxes. Its leaders are among the strongest advocates of abolishing most forms of federal taxation, especially the income tax; they view most current regular federal expenditures, such as those for health care, education, and welfare, as unconstitutional under Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution and the
Tenth Amendment.

The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution does grant Congress the power to "lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration," however, the party disputes the validity of the Amendment's ratification.

The party supports paying off the federal debt through a systematic elimination of further borrowing, programs, and agencies it considers unconstitutional such as the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services.

The party opposes foreign aid, asking that no further funds be appropriated for any kind of foreign aid program, and encourage the idea that the United States terminate its participation in international lending institutions, such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and the Export-Import Bank. It also urges the government to immediately terminate all subsidies, tax preferences, and investment guarantees that encourage U.S. businesses to invest in foreign property; and to seek to collect all foreign debts owed to it.

The Constitution Party favors a noninterventionist foreign policy. It advocates reduction and eventual elimination of the role the United States plays in multinational and international organizations such as the United Nations, and favors withdrawal of the United States from most current treaties, such as North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), and the World Trade Organization.

The party opposes illegal immigration and also seeks stricter controls on legal immigration. It demands that the federal government restore immigration policies based on the policy that potential immigrants will be disqualified from admission to the United States on the grounds of ill health, criminality, low morals, or financial dependence, believing that they would impose an improper burden on the United States, any state, and citizens of the United States. The party has stated a long term goal of a moratorium on future immigration, exempting extreme cases where it would be necessary.

Additionally, it opposes welfare subsidies and other taxpayer-supported benefits to illegal immigrants, rejecting also the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship on children born to illegal immigrant parents while in this country (jus soli). It also rejects any extension of amnesty to illegal immigrants. The Constitution Party calls for the use of U.S. troops to protect the states against an influx of illegal immigrants.

The party opposes euthanasia and abortion including in cases of rape and incest.

The party supports the ability of states to administer the death penalty to those convicted of "capital crimes":
"Our support of a State's option to impose the death penalty is limited to those who have been convicted of capital crimes. This is consistent with protecting innocent life because the death penalty would only be applied to those who have proven to be a threat to innocent life."

The party opposes same-sex marriage, and believes state and local governments have the right to criminalize "offensive sexual behavior".

The party further opposes pornography, believing it to be, at worst, "a destructive element of society resulting in significant and real emotional, physical, spiritual and financial costs to individuals, families and communities," distinguishable from the American citizen's "cherished First Amendment right to free speech."

The party supports English as the official language for all governmental business, opposes bilingual ballots, and insists that those who wish to take part in the electoral process and governance of the U.S. be required to read and comprehend basic English as a precondition of citizenship. The party also opposes the federal Voting Rights Act, which prohibits literacy tests as a requirement for voting.

They specifically state it's to restore the country to its Constitutional and Biblical foundations, but even if I was a bible thumper I bet you couldn't get me to agree with this.

[scriver]

Sounds like any European neo-nazi/extreme nationalist party, really.

[nenjin]

It gives people (like Beck) [false] ideas to the intent of documents crafted in the same time frame.

To be fair, you can't make people understand how or why the laws function like they do. To me Blue Laws are still on the books down there because the States want them there, and that's their prerogative.

What's wrong is that people like Beck spuriously extend that to mean their laws represent some fundamental American value, because their constituents don't honestly give a damn what the difference between state and federal law is or why it exists (even as they scream about state's rights.) That's what's always pissed me off about some conservative view points, is that they demand to have their political bubble of whatever enshrined in state's rights, in the same breath as they try to legislate morality and policy on the national level for everyone.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Sounds like any European neo-nazi/extreme nationalist party, really.

Well, the scary part about this is that the Republican Party and Constitution Party agree on many key issues.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Well, the Tea Party started off as an offshoot of the Constitution Party before being completely co-opted by outside influences and getting a great marketing pitch.

[Andir]

They specifically state it's to restore the country to its Constitutional and Biblical foundations, but even if I was a bible thumper I bet you couldn't get me to agree with this.

Sounds like any European neo-nazi/extreme nationalist party, really.

Well, the scary part about this is that the Republican Party and Constitution Party agree on many key issues.

Yeah, as an Atheist it's hard to back the Constitutionalists   But there are battles you have to pick and I think generally limiting the Federal reach would be a good thing even though they have some very religious fundamental ideas as well.  It also helped me pick a more Libertarian stance (IE: the personal freedoms part of my above post.)

[Andir]

Well, the Tea Party started off as an offshoot of the Constitution Party before being completely co-opted by outside influences and getting a great marketing pitch.

I have no problem with the Tea Party as an Economically Conservative movement, but the coat-tail members using it for something other than fiscal issues is where I draw the line.