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[Kaos]

The idea is to have a stockpile tile, so dwarves automatically haul things there, that when the dwarves leave (pressure plate) the floor opens and chutes the stockpile's contents down to another stockpile, magma, inspection chamber, whatever...


The thing is... is not that easy... you can't place stockpiles on bridges, floor hatches, floor bars or floor grates, that as far as I know are the only floor tiles that could be open/closed on command...


I tried placing a stockpile on natural floor and channeling, dwarves won't dig....
on a constructed floor, you can deconstruct the floor, the stockpile contents will drop, but no new items will be hauled, and you can't construct bridges, hatches, bars or grates.... you're left with open space with an unusable stockpile on it...


I don't want a garbage zone over open space, because I don't want to constantly mark things for dumping, and claim them, I want an automatic chute....


So far the best idea I've come up is placing a stockpile, next to the chute, when the dwarf leaves a pump flushes the stockpile contents into the chute and down onto a floor grate to get rid of the water.... but that would deal with the bug of items disappearing when flushed...    it could work for certain purposes, like a vermin remains chute, where dwarves gather remains place them on the stockpile, when the stockpile gets full, it's flushed down to magma incinerator, or with unusable remains like nervous tissue, etc...


How really bad is the flushing bug anyway? has any !!science!! been done??


Any ideas??

[Girlinhat]

Dwarves won't naturally throw things into open space without some micromanagement.  The closest option is a controlled flooding mechanism that flushes the contents periodically, and may or may not flush dwarves along with it.

One person said that the invisi-bug occurs when the game tries to push an object into a wall, but this doesn't affect the dwarves.  The item will be invisible but still usable to anyone who wants to use it.  I assume that it will become visible again once it's retrieved, but I've never experienced it so I don't know.

[AutomataKittay]

I would imagine having a stockpile that's 'short' in direction of flow would help a lot with the bug, since the dwarves can find the stuff again, even invisibugged, and put it back on there when the flushing room's opened back up.

It's pretty annoying and common bug for me, even in murky pools while pumping or emptying them out to pick up lost stuffs.

[elf-fondling human]

Just set up a garbage zone instead of a pile. It takes a bit more micromanagement to ensure nothing gets dumped unless you want it, but as long as you set stuff to be dumped with d-> b-> d it should be fine. Just remember to claim the stuff again once it's dumped.

[nomad_delta]

I just have a straight vertical garbage chute from my workshops and storage area all the way down into the magma sea, and at a couple points along the way I place big rooms with refuse piles for all the stuff I want to get rid of: rotten food, unusable body parts, low-quality gear, etc completely surrounding the pit, like this:

http://i.imgur.com/pMYpq.png

There is some micromanagement as I do occasionally have to go and d-b-d all the stuff in the room to have them toss it all down the chute into the magma, but at least it's all there in one place and doesn't take long to do.

--nomad_delta

[zilpin]

There's no way to do what you want with chutes automatically, but if the goal is simply to have objects automatically moved from higher levels to lower levels, you can have a string of stockpiles take from each other, the do any micromanagement at the last one.

I use long stockpile take chains to spread stock of certain things throughout the fortress, with excess ending up in one place where I can micromanage a quantum stockpile.

[Psieye]

Short answer: can't be done. Toady has had thoughts on doing things like this later, but at present it can't be done.

[SilentThunderStorm]

I know that this is a necro... but this game and its puzzles last forever, and this is an extremely common issue for newbies and veterans alike... so sue me.

Have you thought about floodgates instead of hatches?  Using them properly (exploiting them) might require an additional z-level, but shouldn't have the same complexity as using a flushing system.

The idea is that you hollow out the 2 z-levels beneath your proposed stockpile... then on the lower z-level, you construct walls (and a stairs to access the second level, then build a layer of floodgates on top.  You can then hook the floodgates to a lever or pressure plate, and then remove the constructed stairs and wall.  The floodgates should remain floating in the air.

Then you simply designate your stockpile on top.  Whenever the switch is thrown, it dumps everything on it onto the floor beneath.  The extra, empty z-level is beneath the floodgates to keep them from getting jammed.

So far, this is only theory... this evening, when I get off of work, I am planning on testing this myself.

[Oaktree]

I think with the new minecarts this should now be easy to do.  Construct a two-tile length of track next to the hole.  On the end next to the hole construct a Track Stop that is set to dump in the direction of the hole when the car arrives.  Construct non-dumping Track Stop on other piece of track.  Build a route that does guides from the non-dumping side to the dumping side when the cart is loaded as desired to dump into the hole.  (And that can be set to automatically draw from a stockpile right next to the track to simplify things.)  Dumping side has a guide order to move the now empty cart back to the loading side.

I use these to set up quantum stockpiles in my fortress.  Ore/wood in the industry sector; finished goods, etc. near the Trade Depot and main stairwell; metal bar near the forges; etc.

Just be careful about who is putzing around in the lower piles when a dumping action occurs.

[SilentThunderStorm]

Ah, okies, then... even easier.

I have little experience yet with minecars, and was going to use the new project to experiment.

Would it be possible to have a minecar simply occupy a single tile?  Simply 'load up from stockpile' and 'dump when full'?  Or does it *need* to run along a track to fulfill these functions?

[Oaktree]

Ah, okies, then... even easier.

I have little experience yet with minecars, and was going to use the new project to experiment.

Would it be possible to have a minecar simply occupy a single tile?  Simply 'load up from stockpile' and 'dump when full'?  Or does it *need* to run along a track to fulfill these functions?

I think you need two tiles if you carve the track.  And I'm not sure you can construct a track tile and then build a stop on top of it.  I got a 2-tile set-up to work and did not experiment much more with trying to do a single tile system.  (And I had had a few accidents while getting things straightened out and was tired of putting dwarves in the hospital.)

[Hyndis]

Its very easy to quantum stockpile things with minecarts and a track stop.

At minimum you only need 2 tiles of track. One is the starting point, the other is the endpoint with a track stop for autodump.

Then create a route. Have the route load at the starting point from a stockpile. Then build the endpoint where the track stop will autodump its contents back onto the very same stockpile. While it doesn't have to be the same stockpile, both stockpiles must have the same permissions to avoid an infinite hauling loop. Ensure that the cart is guided and not pushed so you don't inadvertently squish any dwarves. Guided carts are safe. Pushed or ridden carts may turn ballistic.

You want the source stockpile to be reasonably large, as each tile will generate a hauling job. If your source stockpile is only 1 tile big, it will only ever generate 1 hauling job. If your source stockpile is 5x5, that means 25 hauling jobs, so you can get stuff to the source stockpile at a reasonable pace.

If your source and destination stockpile are the same stockpile, and it is 5x5, then you have 24 hauling jobs bringing stuff to the stockpile, plus 1 tile that is quantum stored.



Also a quick note with minecarts and quantum stockpiles is that bins do not work. If you use bins things get very weird. Just disable bins entirely from the stockpile.

[Laserhead]

You don't need track at all. Just build a track stop (set to dump) on the ground by the chute and it will work.

[Hyndis]

Its very easy to quantum stockpile things with minecarts and a track stop.

At minimum you only need 2 tiles of track. One is the starting point, the other is the endpoint with a track stop for autodump.

Then create a route. Have the route load at the starting point from a stockpile. Then build the endpoint where the track stop will autodump its contents back onto the very same stockpile. While it doesn't have to be the same stockpile, both stockpiles must have the same permissions to avoid an infinite hauling loop. Ensure that the cart is guided and not pushed so you don't inadvertently squish any dwarves. Guided carts are safe. Pushed or ridden carts may turn ballistic.

You want the source stockpile to be reasonably large, as each tile will generate a hauling job. If your source stockpile is only 1 tile big, it will only ever generate 1 hauling job. If your source stockpile is 5x5, that means 25 hauling jobs, so you can get stuff to the source stockpile at a reasonable pace.

If your source and destination stockpile are the same stockpile, and it is 5x5, then you have 24 hauling jobs bringing stuff to the stockpile, plus 1 tile that is quantum stored.



Also a quick note with minecarts and quantum stockpiles is that bins do not work. If you use bins things get very weird. Just disable bins entirely from the stockpile.

Bah, correction. I brainfarted.

The source and destination stockpile must be different. If you have the same stockpile be both source and destination you will just get an infinite hauling loop, where the stockpile is continually loaded into the minecart, empited back into the stockpile, and reloaded into the minecart forever.

But if you have them be different stockpiles you're golden. Remember that the destination stockpile need only be a 1x1 stockpile. 5x5 is a good size for a source stockpile. That means you can have up to 25 dwarves working on filling it. Any more and your entire fort may grind to a halt due to all of the hauling jobs.

[Scruffy]

Yep, you don't need a track, just a singe track stop and a pit next to it. Just place a minecart and make a hauling route taking items from a nearby stockpile (refuse set to only accept unwanted junk for an example) and dump to the direction of the hole.