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[Girlinhat]

Seems to be just booze, to me.  The same-booze mood seems to be from the [ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT] tag, as this causes them to crave booze, and crave different booze.  Non-dependent creatures will consume booze, but will happily drink water when booze isn't available.

[Number4]

Also pretty sure that's only booze. Variety only helps to get more dwarves something they like - the one that likes plump helmets would have no problems with a plump helmet only diet. However farming plump helmets and a second crop for booze is incredibly boring...I always strive to get a nice selection of decent food...above ground, below ground, processed plants, meat, cheese, eggs...

[Montague]

What I'd like to see is randomized cultural food preferences. So you'd have the occasional civilization of dwarves that refused to touch eyeballs or pancreas, but also some that thought the meat was worthless and inedible.  "Ew, what is this stuff?  Steak? Gimme some brains!"

YES. This is what I think.

Ok, sure, the Scottish eat lungs, brains, kidneys and any sort of offal they can scrape up off the butcher's floor and they cook it into a meal of offal, more offal. Offal-stuffed-offal-with-oatmeal-and-blood.

Thing is, nobody else in the sane parts of the world really does that unless they are starving and they have too.

Just because one (honestly crazy) culture does it, doesn't mean every civ you have in DF should emulate it. Maybe some people don't like brains, lungs, pork, cats, dogs or mussels. Because its disgusting. Don't eat that.

Cultural mores are what I'm getting after here.

[caknuck]

Rich westerners pay hundreds of dollars per serving to eat minced duck liver and sturgeon eggs. Some cultures eat offal because it has developed into a delicacy.

On the other hand, other cultures wind up eating offal because rich landowners don't let the poor tenants eat the good cuts of meat. And folks, that's how we got haggis and chitlins.

[nanomage]

What I'd like to see is randomized cultural food preferences. So you'd have the occasional civilization of dwarves that refused to touch eyeballs or pancreas, but also some that thought the meat was worthless and inedible.  "Ew, what is this stuff?  Steak? Gimme some brains!"

YES. This is what I think.

Ok, sure, the Scottish eat lungs, brains, kidneys and any sort of offal they can scrape up off the butcher's floor and they cook it into a meal of offal, more offal. Offal-stuffed-offal-with-oatmeal-and-blood.

Thing is, nobody else in the sane parts of the world really does that unless they are starving and they have too.

Just because one (honestly crazy) culture does it, doesn't mean every civ you have in DF should emulate it. Maybe some people don't like brains, lungs, pork, cats, dogs or mussels. Because its disgusting. Don't eat that.

Cultural mores are what I'm getting after here.

you are awfully wrong thinking only one scottish culture eats it.
Well, if consider your words about "sane parts of the world" that makes more sense, but then i'm afraid your world is going to be predominantly crazy.

[Greiger]

Just throwing in that I think value of the food counts for something to the dwarf that eats it.   I've had many many many no prepared meals fortresses (its easy when your custom carnivore race can't seem to eat them no matter the ingredients) and I've come acros folks with ate a decadent meal lately thoughts without having a food prefrence.

So sufficiently high value food items may make dwarves happy independent of preferences.  Yum yum, hydra liver.


Also to help with the OP.  Modding ducks crazy muscular may improve meat yield sufficiently to have them produce small amounts.  Last I heard in a devlog, how muscular a critter is has an effect on meat yield.  A 5000 strength duck might be able to produce some meat even at normal body size.

[AutomataKittay]

Just throwing in that I think value of the food counts for something to the dwarf that eats it.   I've had many many many no prepared meals fortresses (its easy when your custom carnivore race can't seem to eat them no matter the ingredients) and I've come acros folks with ate a decadent meal lately thoughts without having a food prefrence.

So sufficiently high value food items may make dwarves happy independent of preferences.  Yum yum, hydra liver.


Also to help with the OP.  Modding ducks crazy muscular may improve meat yield sufficiently to have them produce small amounts.  Last I heard in a devlog, how muscular a critter is has an effect on meat yield.  A 5000 strength duck might be able to produce some meat even at normal body size.

I've done experiments with value and quality vs happiness, it's most likely the values that makes their beards shake with ecstasy, so yeah, high value stuffs thrills them

I have no idea about muscularity, but I did noticed that on wiki, Roc are specified to provide a lot more meat than Dragon, despite being smaller. Didn't find anything obvious in the raws myself, but that's somewhere to look at, assuming it's not a mis-report.

[nanomage]

Just throwing in that I think value of the food counts for something to the dwarf that eats it.   I've had many many many no prepared meals fortresses (its easy when your custom carnivore race can't seem to eat them no matter the ingredients) and I've come acros folks with ate a decadent meal lately thoughts without having a food prefrence.

So sufficiently high value food items may make dwarves happy independent of preferences.  Yum yum, hydra liver.


Also to help with the OP.  Modding ducks crazy muscular may improve meat yield sufficiently to have them produce small amounts.  Last I heard in a devlog, how muscular a critter is has an effect on meat yield.  A 5000 strength duck might be able to produce some meat even at normal body size.

I've done experiments with value and quality vs happiness, it's most likely the values that makes their beards shake with ecstasy, so yeah, high value stuffs thrills them

I have no idea about muscularity, but I did noticed that on wiki, Roc are specified to provide a lot more meat than Dragon, despite being smaller. Didn't find anything obvious in the raws myself, but that's somewhere to look at, assuming it's not a mis-report.

I think that's because of dragons being all toddlers

[AutomataKittay]

I think that's because of dragons being all toddlers

I rather doubt it, because I did checked in arena mode for the dragon ( doesn't have anything more current than .18 so I can't check Rocs ). Even then, cows, dogs, donkeys and horses have overlapping amount of meat, despite being different in size. Though it could partially be from physical variations, but still.

[nanomage]

here's what i obtained from butchering 8 dragons:
meat 172 182 123 105 115 162 137 143
bone 100 106  74   65  70   94   79   84
fat     61   64  46   41  46   57   51   52
Here's what i got from rocs
meat 507 548 441 415 492 491 536 509
bone 271 295 237 221 265 265 288 271
fat   139 150 122 116 137 137 147 139
average values, dragon vs roc
meat 142.4 492.4
bone 84.0 264.1
fat    52.3 135.9

roc/dragon ratios
meat 3.5
bone 3.1
fat   2.6
roc rorpse weighs ~22kU
dragon corpse is 5-7kU

We see that rocs are much larger than dragons, at least in arena. I think arena dragons are toddlers, too
edit: if not i'm lost. According to raws, dragons are slightly bigger, but we see that actually rock are 3 times bigger, and bigger in muscle and in bone and in fat. I don't think RELSIZES or individual differences can account for this.
Maybe some modder can take a look at their raws and tell us what may be producing such effect.

[Greiger]

Taking a look at raws now.

Toddler dragons are size 6000.  Making them smaller than a dog.  You wouldn't get nearly that much meat from a toddler dragon.

Hmm...I see nothing in either the dragon or Roc files that would cause such a massive discrepancy.   Dragons only have 2 growth sizes, while a roc has 3. 

Maybe instead of stating the creature's average size for those growth phases they are actually additions to current size.

That would make dragons 6000+25000000=                     25006000
and Rocs                         200000+5000000+20000000=   25200000

That would make Rocs larger, but not three times as large, so It's likely to be completely wrong.  But I can't find anything else in the raws.

[AutomataKittay]

I doubt the arena dragons are toddlers, wouldn't match behavior of other spawned creatures being fully adult. I agree that there're other variables, but I know very little about reading raws myself.

And dogs provides between 6 to 12 meats fully grown (from my recall of fort butchering and breeding ), which... Well... a hundred?

[nanomage]

i just can't think of any other cause.
Arena dragons just can't be adults. they are even smaller than an ettin or a giant - ettins kicked them around!

[Greiger]

Yet they give much more meat than a creature that size should...

Maybe their tissue size values don't account for age.  Giving them the tissue size of adults while keeping their combat sizes of a young dragon.  That could explain some of the difference.

But as stated, that is inconsistent with the arena mode's "always adult" spawning.   I suppose that could be tested by throwing a creature into arena mode with the age values of dragons that has a different name when still small.

EDIT: Just tried it with a few modifications to a dragon.  I gave them the [CHILD:1000] tag to indicate to the game that they are technically children under the age of 1000 which is the age where they reach full size.  And then gave them a custom child name.   The dragons I spawned in the arena did not have that child name in either the combat logs or elsewhere.   

But it could be that the [CHILD:] tag itself modified the experiment.  It could be that arena mode just gives the creature an arbitrary high value for it's age, but forces the value to be higher than the [child] tag's value.  Which could make dragons young when in arena mode (since that arbitrary high value may not be high enough in their case) since in vanilla they don't have the tag.

[Girlinhat]

The roc is being described as big enough to dwarf even dragons, which implies a great deal of size.  There's nothing in the raws to make this true, though.  The only possible explanation is the egg size difference between rocs and dragons.  Anyone wanna try modding a duck for an egg size 1,000,000 and see if you get supermassive ducks?