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Poll

Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?

Yes, definitely.
- 84 (53.8%)
Probably.
- 32 (20.5%)
Maybe, maybe not.
- 15 (9.6%)
Probably not.
- 14 (9%)
No, definitely not.
- 6 (3.8%)
Don't know.
- 5 (3.2%)

Total Members Voted: 155


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Author Topic: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?  (Read 11305 times)

Blargityblarg

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2011, 08:17:27 am »

Gravity bomb as in it doesn't fly; it falls.
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Nikov

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2011, 10:22:29 am »

Warheads not in an ICBM or an intercontinental bomber are not, strictly speaking, strategic. Additionally Pakistan and India are on a scale far below the MAD threshold; both can survive an exchange without being logistically "broken-backed". NK's bomb test failed last I heard, to the anguish of a lot of people's shoulder-head connective tissue.

And gravity bombs can totally fly. They actually have a computer on the F-15E Strike Eagle for lofting bombs over terrain features to hit targets on the other side. Nose up, full throttle, drop the bomb, peel off. Bomb keeps flying in a big fat arc over the mountain.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2011, 11:03:44 am »

I was hoping a "gravity bomb" would create some kind of black hole.

London is like, 1/10th of England's population though, isn't it?
Something like that.  Decimation seems like a pretty high fatality rate even if we assume that every other target is uninhabited...
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2011, 11:48:09 am »

And gravity bombs can totally fly. They actually have a computer on the F-15E Strike Eagle for lofting bombs over terrain features to hit targets on the other side. Nose up, full throttle, drop the bomb, peel off. Bomb keeps flying in a big fat arc over the mountain.

Every fighter has that capability. If you want to be pedantic about it, a gravity bomb is an unpowered weapon without lift-generating surfaces.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2011, 11:53:41 am »

I was hoping a "gravity bomb" would create some kind of black hole.

That's exactly what they do in my book... Which is why the Bombs never are supposed to be used within 50 KM of the ground. Otherwise... Bad things happen.

Of course they also have Grenades that do the same thing but the BH decays before it can do any significant damage to any more than a very localized area.
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Nikov

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2011, 12:57:10 pm »

And gravity bombs can totally fly. They actually have a computer on the F-15E Strike Eagle for lofting bombs over terrain features to hit targets on the other side. Nose up, full throttle, drop the bomb, peel off. Bomb keeps flying in a big fat arc over the mountain.

Every fighter has that capability. If you want to be pedantic about it, a gravity bomb is an unpowered weapon without lift-generating surfaces.

You're being pedantic. Yes, every fighter has the capability to throw a bomb over a mountain. The F-15 has a computer for it, which is pretty uncommon.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2011, 01:00:14 pm »

The F-16 and every other USAF aircraft that carries bombs has the same computer.
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Strife26

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2011, 01:01:20 pm »

Everyone is being kinda a pendant. Shall we let the issue drop with the note that while there are many methods for dropping gravity bombs other than straight down, actual targeting computers that take it into effect are somewhat rare.
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Nikov

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2011, 01:05:01 pm »

...while there are many methods for dropping gravity bombs other than straight down, actual targeting computers that take it into effect are somewhat rare.

Yes, I absolutely agree with this conclusion.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2011, 01:05:27 pm »

Indeed, it would be an interesting kind of bomb that ignored the laws of physics and just dropped straight down regardless of what direction the plane that dropped it was flying in.
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Nikov

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2011, 01:07:52 pm »

I recall my very early flight sim days being told by a friend I wasn't hitting targets because I wasn't flying perfectly level when I passed over the target and dropped the bomb. Completely incorrect, but when you see all those old combat camera films of B-17's they fall in straight lines from the plane, not at a curve. Physics for dummies lesson one right there.
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Ephemeriis

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2011, 01:25:24 pm »

But do you think we have it in us? Could someone really push the button and kill all of humanity? Everyone you know? Everyone alive?
Yes.  Most emphatically yes.

Could you do that?
I'd like to say no.  I think the answer is no.  But, honestly...  Given the right motivation, the right circumstances?  I dunno...  I think I might just be capable of it.

Personally, I don't think anyone could. In a social situation, no one wants to be "that guy", and no one wants to be the person responsible for the destruction of our species.
That is why we have all sorts of processes and machinery and chains of command in-place to remove the human part of the equation.  It's all designed to abdicate responsibility and lessen the emotional impact.  So that, if need be, somebody can actually push the button.

I think even a religious extremist sociopath who wants the world to die so that he will be rewarded after death would begin to have some level of doubt when the time actually came to bring about the end.
Seriously?  We've got folks here in the US who are literally waiting for the end of days.  Cheering on the chaos in the Middle East because it is a sign of the end times.

I also present to you the case of Stanislav Petrov. He received satellite data suggesting that the USA had launched five nuclear missiles at the USSR, and decided to report the data as a false alarm instead of informing his superiors.
Which is, again, why we've got assorted things in-place to reduce or remove that human element from the equation.

Finally, I find support in the revelation after the end of the Cold War that the USA and USSR both never intended to make the first strike, only to retaliate.
Because, at the time, rational people were in charge.  And right now I'd say that more-or-less rational people are in charge.  And I don't think any rational human being is going to want to end the world.  But not every human being is rational...  And those who are rational, aren't rational all the time...  And nuclear weapons aren't really all that hard to obtain...

All we need is for a couple religious extremists to get their hands on a nuke, and a few more religious extremists to retaliate (or even panic and strike pre-emptively) and we're well on the way to Armageddon.
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Chunes

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2011, 03:52:12 pm »

I'm pretty sure I'd have it in me, under some pretty impressive circumstances.
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Sensei

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #88 on: June 17, 2011, 04:00:15 pm »

I recall my very early flight sim days being told by a friend I wasn't hitting targets because I wasn't flying perfectly level when I passed over the target and dropped the bomb. Completely incorrect, but when you see all those old combat camera films of B-17's they fall in straight lines from the plane, not at a curve. Physics for dummies lesson one right there.
Well, it appears that way because the point of view is moving. If they actually dropped straight down, they'd appear to leave then plane and suddenly go backwards at 200 miles an hour, just a little black blur.
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Nikov

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Re: Are people capable of starting a Global Nuclear War?
« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2011, 05:34:33 pm »

I recall my very early flight sim days being told by a friend I wasn't hitting targets because I wasn't flying perfectly level when I passed over the target and dropped the bomb. Completely incorrect, but when you see all those old combat camera films of B-17's they fall in straight lines from the plane, not at a curve. Physics for dummies lesson one right there.
Well, it appears that way because the point of view is moving. If they actually dropped straight down, they'd appear to leave then plane and suddenly go backwards at 200 miles an hour, just a little black blur.
Exactly. And sicne I was eight years old...
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