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[AutomataKittay]

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Quality

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Happy#Positive_Thought_Modifiers

Read these two, I am fairly sure happiness from viewing an object is directly proportional to the finished (calculated overall) value of an object meaning that a balance of both base value and quality is needed, but basically, better quality = more value = happier dwarves, and you should strive to make much masterwork platinum furniture.

I did, neither of them speaks anything about happiness relating to value itself. In fact noted in the Happy article is:

Admired a (good quality) (object) lately:

Passed right next to or over a constructed piece of furniture and noticed it (what are the chances of noticing an object?)

Which says nothing about value and implies that it's quality itself. I checked the talk page on both, as far as I can tell there've been no discussion of such.

Quality is value multiplier, true, but that says nothing outside of value improvement there (and weapon/armor boosts, but that's not the subject ). And the one place where value is important is room designation, which doesn't take in account of quality, at all outside of value boost, as far as I can tell.

Now, what does admiring takes in account? The quality of the object or decoration, or the sheer value? My personal observation, which's fairly limited, says it's quality of object, or it's decorations. I wouldn't mind being disproven, though.

[Psieye]

I'm not convinced everyone is synchronised with what this thread is about. The topic boils down to two questions:
- "is a masterwork schist piece of furniture better (for dwarf happiness boosts) than a no-quality platinum equivalent, given no decorations on either?" (2 x 12 < 40)
- "is a no-quality schist piece of furniture with a masterwork diamond decoration better than a masterwork platinum equivalent with no decorations?" ({2 + 100 x 12} > 40 x 12)

As far as I'm concerned, Khym Chanur has proven that value is the bottom line in how much happiness dwarves get from admiring the furniture. Decorations, quality, raw material - these are all separate means to the end. Science always welcomes cross-testing though, so I await reports of further experimentation.

[ETV]

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Quality

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Happy#Positive_Thought_Modifiers

Read these two, I am fairly sure happiness from viewing an object is directly proportional to the finished (calculated overall) value of an object meaning that a balance of both base value and quality is needed, but basically, better quality = more value = happier dwarves, and you should strive to make much masterwork platinum furniture.

I did, neither of them speaks anything about happiness relating to value itself. In fact noted in the Happy article is:

Admired a (good quality) (object) lately:

Passed right next to or over a constructed piece of furniture and noticed it (what are the chances of noticing an object?)

Which says nothing about value and implies that it's quality itself. I checked the talk page on both, as far as I can tell there've been no discussion of such.

Quality is value multiplier, true, but that says nothing outside of value improvement there (and weapon/armor boosts, but that's not the subject ). And the one place where value is important is room designation, which doesn't take in account of quality, at all outside of value boost, as far as I can tell.

Now, what does admiring takes in account? The quality of the object or decoration, or the sheer value? My personal observation, which's fairly limited, says it's quality of object, or it's decorations. I wouldn't mind being disproven, though.

From what I saw quality is simply a modifier for two things, value and weapon to-hit.

That means your observations may be just the result of the modifier increasing the base value x12.

The thoughts that they get related to "fine door" etc may just be checks.

example;

Say your thoughts were based on static numbers like 1,000 = Fine, 2,000 = Exceptional.

Your dwarf passing and admiring a 1,532 Value door would have the thought "admired fine door", but if he has saw 2,504 Door, the thought would be "admired exceptional door", the quality of the door is just a descriptor in this case and simply affected the end value of the object.

Since I saw no other effects from quality I assumed it was that this is all quality was; a modifier, or not enough is yet known about quality to determine whether it has another value beyond multiplying objects value or to-hit chances.

[Girlinhat]

I placed a siltstone no-quality statue without making it a statue garden, then placed a 1x1 meeting area activity zone right next to it, so the dwarves would be likely to move past it.  Resulted in "She admired a fine Statue lately".

This seems to be the final word on the argument.  Value alone is the determinate for how much of a positive thought your dwarves get.  You can achieve quality by making a gem encrusted shist chair, or by making an adamantine table.  Decorations and material are just different ways to change value, and value is the bottom line.  How you achieve that value isn't important, just that last number counts.

[MiniMacker]

Let's say I place a Statue in the centre of a 3 wide corridor. This forces the dwarves to always pass it.

Will they always admire it and get a happy thought?

[Girlinhat]

They're more likely to, yes, but not guaranteed.

[AutomataKittay]

Just tried putting up some masterpiece wood doors (120 bux ) and no-quality gold hatches (300 bux ) as well as left a no-quality statue worth 75. So far statue seem to be far more noticed than either the doors or hatches.

Those are the only doors and hatches accessible to dwarves in the whole fortress and between the meeting zone ( which is around the statue ) and the food and drinks. Will update if I notices any changes in their observation relating to doors and hatches. It's possible that they admires decorations ( which statues acts like ) more than other objects, however it may be just that they're around it so much and have more time to notice the statue.

I did noticed that in a couple of personality screens, that they've slept in good beds, despite none of them being masterpieces, with a few exceptional quality ones. And none in personal bedrooms, all dorm, nor decorated with anything.

[Girlinhat]

Well if the statue is in the meeting hall, of course they're going to notice it more!  Try putting only a hatch on the floor, as the entrance to the food pile, and the door right beside it.  This way, they only get noticed when a dwarf is doing something, instead of standing around gawking.  See what gets noticed more when they have equal opportunities.

[celem]

Still interesting to check if the thought descriptions (fine, superb etc) follow a linear progression with the item values.

Otherwise yeah, dwarves check out stuff when they are idle/on break a lot more than when tasked up.  Thats why we put cool stuff in high-traffic routes, so you can catch the guys not in the meeting halls/statue gardens.

[AutomataKittay]

Some of them are noticing the doors AND hatches.

admired a fine tastefully arranged Statue lately.
admired a fine Door lately.
admired a splendid Floor Hatch lately.

And both door and hatches are noted only on very few, as little as 5 or 6, out of 57 dwarves, after a couple weeks fort-time, while the statue is on far majority, with exception of a few civilians and none of the military (they trains far away from statues ). Since splendid's above fine in quality chart, I'd have to say it does sounds like value-based, as was suggested by others earlier. I have no idea what effects dwarves noticing things, since the door and hatches shows up with roughly same frequency, despite hatch being twice as valuable. Material preference doesn't seem to affect the noticing frequency, since almost none of them likes the types of woods used, nor gold, in their preferences.

I did noticed that a good amount of them have admired the trade deport, which's fine in quality and been around and well-used for quite a while. And surprisingly, furnace, fine also (and far far underground, only used for smelting, I wasn't expecting so many to notice )

[celem]

Depot and furnace are both mega hauling destinations.  I always build gold depots and smelters.  Butchers shop/farmers workshop/still are good candidates too.

[AutomataKittay]

Depot and furnace are both mega hauling destinations.  I always build gold depots and smelters.  Butchers shop/farmers workshop/still are good candidates too.

Fair enough, I've been running a lot of smelting of ores lately so that'd explain why everyone and their dog noticed it, haha. I don't think shops that don't involve architecture labor really contributes to happiness or value, so no butcher, farmer's workshop or stills, at least as far as I've seen, none had admired them. Well, unless there're some base minimum of pure value for everything before it possibly gets noticed for even those?

[Girlinhat]

Build an adamantine butcher, and see if anyone noticed.  It'll be worth at least 1,500 (300 addy * 5 bar) so it'll be well above the noticing threshold.  "Urist has admired a completely sublime butcher lately" will be key.  I don't believe it will happen.

[AutomataKittay]

Build an adamantine butcher, and see if anyone noticed.  It'll be worth at least 1,500 (300 addy * 5 bar) so it'll be well above the noticing threshold.  "Urist has admired a completely sublime butcher lately" will be key.  I don't believe it will happen.

Will gold do? 
It's certainly more than masterpiece wood door at value 150, I'm setting a kitchen up with it as I speaks. A cook should notice since I still have a few large stacks of fat to auto-render.

[Girlinhat]

Especially if you start cooking biscuits, and don't have a fat stockpile.  It'll get cluttered fast and he'll spend a lot of time in the kitchen.