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[h3lblad3]

Except as expressly provided otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the Laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles.

Wait, what, they want disputes in California and lawsuits in Delaware? Why should they even get to choose? This rubs me the wrong way.

I think I see what they are trying to do here. I believe the reason this exists is to make the process as costly as possible to the consumer. Imagine having to ship yourself back and forth between both ends of the US just to have the law laid down on them.

They get to choose because it's in the contract! 
Of course, you'd have to sue in a place convenient for them, as defendant, to reasonably be able to address the issue.
But yes, 10-to-1 it was made to drive up the cost for those attempting to sue.

Also,
"To expedite resolution and control the cost of any dispute, controversy or claim related to this Agreement (“Dispute”), you and Blizzard agree to first attempt to negotiate any Dispute ...informally for at least thirty (30) days before initiating any arbitration or court proceeding."
"YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ABSENT THIS PROVISION, YOU WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL."

Are these two sections actually placed next to one another?
I admit, I'm not exactly sure what they mean by it. I assume it means you just can't sue in the first 30 days.
It'd be ridiculously easy to get that overturned in court if you had to: by pointing out that a fair number of people misunderstand it. 

[Sensei]

No- it means that while bound by the EULA (which I guess means, unless you terminate your account) you may have an arbitration with Blizzard, but not a jury trial.

[UltraValican]

I was considering playing WOW, but now.....I probally won't.
If I decide to play Orc or some shiz like that and my gf decides to be some elf princess or whatever,  acording to this contract, we can't contact each other AT ALL.
...
Thats taking role playing WAY to seriously.....

Also, I don't like the naming regulations(even if the are never enforced) I can be banned just by naming my charecter OrcShogun, or whatever?
Blizzard. I am Dissapoint

[Hanzoku]

Well... no. If she's alliance and you're horde, you can't communicate in game. You also can't take advantage of mods that translate the gibberish of each letter so you shout out 'I CKA' and have the alliance see 'U SUK'.

Honestly people, it's there as part of the 'don't be a douchbag' clause, not some conspiracy that you shall never talk to people who play the other faction again by any means. 

[UltraValican]

Well... no. If she's alliance and you're horde, you can't communicate in game. You also can't take advantage of mods that translate the gibberish of each letter so you shout out 'I CKA' and have the alliance see 'U SUK'.

Honestly people, it's there as part of the 'don't be a douchbag' clause, not some conspiracy that you shall never talk to people who play the other faction again by any means. 

My point was, that I won't pay for a product that forbids communication simply for the sake of roleplaying...now if they let individuals change their alignment regardless of race.......
Also, I don't understand why disabling comunication between factions contributes to the "dont be a douche claus" considering that I can still be an ass to other people.

[Stworca]

Regarding the ban on communication between factions. There was a hammer in Blackrock Depths (vanilla dungeon, years ago) that upon proc allowed the character to speak in Dwarven - Horde too.
Sure it's occasional, but a prepared and determined group could break ze rules with Blizzard's own tools.

[breadbocks]

Yeah, but if you want to chat with your wife, just join her faction. You can make a bunch of characters.

[billybobfred]

D. Expression of Relationship Orientation

You may use the following terms to express your relationship orientation or gender identity in your profile or Gamertag:

    * Lesbian
    * Gay
    * Bi
    * Transgender
    * Straight

Other terms regarding relationship orientation are not allowed. In addition you may not use these terms or any other terms regarding relationship orientation to insult, harass, or any other pejorative use against other users.

Hmmmmmm. Well, I don't envy whoever was on the committee to write up this policy. Also, what other "terms regarding relationship orientation" are not allowed, exactly? Beastial? You know what, actually, I just don't want to know.

Asexual, pansexual, intersex, genderqueer... and that's just off the top of my head. And it's very picky; you can say "gay" but not "homosexual", "transgender" but not "trans*"... Only the exact words they use, no synonyms.

That's kinda disturbing, actually.

[redacted123]

-

[UltraValican]

If the op hasn't already decided to do something else maby wecould see Steam's EULA.

[h3lblad3]

Someone's probably addressed this already but the reason companies incorporate in Delaware and make Delaware state law apply to their products is because the laws in Delaware are very favourable to corporations whether it's copyright or taxation or whatever. It's not really to try and increase the inconvenience of someone having to go to Delaware to sue.

My business law professor would have both agreed and disagreed with you. 

[Sensei]

If the op hasn't already decided to do something else maybe we could see Steam's EULA.

Oh psh, Steam's EULA can't be that bad. It contains... well, less than two instances of the word "terrorist". You  know what, I think I'll read it.

Say hello to the STEAM® SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT.

Steam® deserves special mention. It's not exactly a video game, but a social service as well as a service through which video games are bought- so it has the triple coverage of encompassing your communications, credit card numbers, and access to games you've purchased. It's also very popular- if you're reading this thread, you've probably bought a game through Steam®- I have several. While it has very good service, some (few) people have been locked out of their Steam® account, or had it hijacked, and therefore lost access to the games they bought through Steam®, so this legal agreement is something to think about.

Oh, and the text is light gray on dark gray and it's small. 

1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.

Steam is an online service ("Steam") offered by Valve Corporation ("Valve").

You probably already know, but Valve is/was originally a game developer, responsible for Half Life and Portal, among others.

You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration.

Like when you buy a disc and then it forces you to download your entire game via Steam®. A lot of games force Steam® onto your computer, so a video game purchase can effectively come wrapped in the Steam® agreement as well as its own EULA.

Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers.

This is the famous Steam® sales, and why people are willing to put up with steam (I give up with the ® crap) forcing itself onto their computers.

Unless you are a Licensed Cybercafe Operator (as defined below), this Agreement does not allow you to exploit the Software... for any commercial purpose... A "Licensed Cybercafe Operator" is a Cybercafe that has agreed to the Subscription Terms

Apparently, there's an additional agreement for cybercafe operators. I briefly skimmed it and it doesn't seem interesting except that there apparently are certain rules governing Valve's content on Xbox consoles (Xbox Live does not have Steam support at this time).

This section also says that other "subscriptions" (any software or content) may come with additional terms, such as fees (mostly the steam store), and that there is a privacy policy (I haven't read it thoroughly).

Lastly, your registration creates and account, which you are responsible for.

2. LICENSES
Firstly is a bit on "License terms:

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Software").

This first part goes on to cover that this mostly just means automatic steam updates (which in practice I've noticed it actually asks for) and preloading games. It also mentions that Valve CHOOSES to give you updates, and you are not entitled to them, so be thankful, peasant!

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software... The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.

This is on basically everything, but it really bugs me. Does it mean I don't own the software (and the rights to modify, sell, claim etc) or the right to use it? It also goes on (in terms that seem to be explaining what a download is) that, in short, you can download a potentially limited number of copies of the game and you have to download the steam client to do so.

Then there's Beta Software Terms. This can summed up to two details: You lose beta access at Valves discretion (when the commercial version is released, at latest) and it's not their problem if it screws up your computer. After that there's a section on the Source SDK (a tool for designing/modding source engine games) that says it's to be used for non-commercial purposes only. Then it says you don't own any intellectual property...

Aha, a bit titled "Restrictions"! Maybe something interesting it in here...

Except as otherwise permitted under Section 2(C) with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile... any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent...

Well, that's a bit odd. Someone let me know if you figure out how to photocopy software.

3. MERCHANDISE

Valve may from time to time offer items other than software, content and services for purchase via Steam (e.g., apparel, books, posters, etc.) ("Merchandise").

Huh, didn't know they did that.

This just says that you have to pay shipping taxes if you're international (not from AMERICA) and Valve is responsible for not losing the item until it is given to you (after which point it's your own damn fault if you lose it). Apparently you can also return merchandise with a receipt within 30 days... unless you're European. No really:

The terms of this Section 3.C do not apply to European Union consumers.

Yes, section C is their return policy. There's no mention of a separate EU return policy.

4. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

Most of this deals with credit cards. Aside from agreeing that you aren't committing credit card fraud, This section covers that any changes to payment information will be given 30 days notice. Oh, and of course, no refunds.

ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART.

It also briefly covers that you may keep a "Steam wallet" which basically works like you would expect.

After the agreement explains credit card transactions, it says that if you but something in a store you may be required to make a steam account- I think I mentioned that earlier in brief.

Valve may offer or require a Subscription for purchasers of retail packaged product versions... The "CD-Key" or "Product Key" accompanying such versions is used to activate your Subscription.

Curiously, there's a paragraph about free stuff:

In some cases, Valve may offer a free Subscription to certain services... As with all Subscriptions, you are always responsible for any Internet service provider, telephone, and other connection fees...

I guess they were worried that people might think "free" means Steam gives you internet access so you can download their freebies.

After that, it talks about links to third party sites, and as usual says that Valve isn't responsible for your dealings with third parties. Then there's a big chunk labeled "Pricing and Payment for merchandise".

The prices for Merchandise displayed on Steam are subject to change at any time without notice.

Eh, that's not as scary as it probably sounds. Chiefly this part of the agreement details that tax will not be displayed on the price of items until you're in the payment screen. There is ONE interesting detail, however:

Shipping and handling charges displayed on Steam may or may not reflect the actual charges paid by Valve.

GASP! How could this be? Well, Valve explains...

All war-risk, marine, or other insurance; harbor charges; tolls; wharfage; demurrage; wharf handling; duties, or warehousing charges are excluded from Merchandise prices displayed on Steam and are your responsibility.

Huh. That's... thorough. Has anyone here ever had to pay war-risk charges on shipping? For something the likes of which steam sells, no less?

Oh, also if Valve forgets to tell you about taxes you still have to pay them.

Failure on Valve's part to invoice you for any such taxes does not relieve you of the liability to pay such taxes. You will promptly reimburse Valve for all taxes or other charges imposed upon Valve by any national, state or municipal government upon the sale...

You know, in case Valve is like me and has no idea who might have to pay war risk insurance.

5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR

In long winded terms, you are required not to use cheats (which Valve defines as software or hardware meant to give a person an unfair advantage in a multiplayer game), create cheats, or try to circumvent software that looks for cheats.

Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat...

Hmm... This makes perfect sense in practice (Valve can ban you for illegal activities) but it also means organizing drug deals on TF2 chat is "cheating", which is a little questionable as far as the vernacular goes.

The EULA just provides a link to the code of conduct, and I'll go over that as well. It's a very brief 'you will not' list. Chiefly
-Do not violate intellectual property rights
-Do not upload viruses or attack steam servers
-Don't use Steam for pyramid schemes, chain letters or information harvesting
-Don't be a douche to people ("Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten")
-Do not violate "applicable laws or regulations".

6. THIRD PARTY CONTENT
Very brief: "Third party content isn't us. Love, Valve"

7. USER GENERATED INFORMATION

After establishing what User Generated Information is (thinks you say or post online) Valve mostly just says that they get rights to it.

...you expressly grant Valve the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

Translation:

...you... grant Valve the... right to use... the User Generated Information... without attribution to you, and without... compensation...

Even with the mass ellipses, that's easier to read. Darn legalese.

8. DEDICATED SERVER
This establishes that if you host servers, you may do so on as many computers as you like, but you are responsible for bandwidth costs.

9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES

This is a long section in all caps. It's in three subsections.

Disclaimers:

VALVE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS (I) ANY WARRANTY FOR STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, AND (II) ANY COMMON LAW DUTIES WITH REGARD TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT.

This says that Steam and associated products have no warranty, and they can't be charged with negligence or lack of workmanlike effort... wait.

INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT.

LACK OF NEGLIGENCE

Is "duties of lack" a thing? Because if it is, maybe they just forgot a comma. Otherwise, typo or no, the Steam® Subscriber Agreement says that you can't legally charge Valve with not being negligent enough. Don't ever say Valve lacks negligence.

There's some other stuff here, but only one thing that really sticks out:

ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312(3) OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED.

Apparently, Valve thinks they can just waive the Uniform Commercial Code. If you're wondering, here's UCC §2-312 and 2-312(3) says:

(3) Unless otherwise agreed a seller who is a merchant regularly dealing in goods of the kind warrants that the goods shall be delivered free of the rightful claim of any third person by way of infringement or the like but a buyer who furnishes specifications to the seller must hold the seller harmless against any such claim which arises out of compliance with the specifications.

After reading some legal papers (OCD warning sign?) it seems that this is meant to protect purchasers of goods (not usually end users) who have requested custom products of some kind. I'm not even sure how this applies to Steam, since you can't buy anything according to your "specifications" (the legal definition of which is slightly debated). Still, it bugs me that they're basically saying they're exempt from a particular law.

Limitation of Liability:
This basically says that if you can't access your products- be it that you lost your account, your computer exploded, you took a camping trip and didn't have internet access, or whatever the reason, it's not Valve's problem.

No Guarantees:

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

This makes sense in practice (Valve does not guarantee that its service won't fail for some reason), but to a consumer reading it, well... the wording just isn't pleasant. I imagine a restaurant not guaranteeing spit-free hamburgers.

10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES
By "Exclusive Remedies", this means that there is only one remedy offered for a dispute with Valve (I wonder what happens if you dispute that).

For merchandise (IE physical goods) it simply says to refer to to 3c, their return policy. For software:

...YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.

Well, huh. I think the effect would be the same if they said to just deal with it. I mean literally- they said "If you have a dispute with Steam service, your only remedy is to shut down your account." Following that is a clause saying that if they are found liable for something they will be so to the least extent applicable under law.

11. INDEMNIFICATION

You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Valve, its licensors and their affiliates from all liabilities... that arise from or in connection with breach of this Agreement, use of Steam or any Subscription or any related content, or any User Generated Information...

This mostly isn't that bad, as far as EULAs go. However, the bit about 'holding Valve harmless from liabilities from a breach of the agreement' is worrying in that it doesn't state whether it's you or Valve breaching the agreement- it could be interpreted so that if Valve breaches their EULA you have to indemnify them for it.

This Section regarding Indemnification shall survive termination of this Agreement.

I don't think that's how it works... and at that, we still haven't seen an exit clause from this agreement (such as WoW's EULA saying that you are free of the agreement if you terminate your account).

12. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT

If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after your receiving notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software.

That's the important bit- 30 day warning on revisions (even if that just means showing you the entire EULA and saying it's updated, like most companies do). Still a lot better than nothing.

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

...Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account... at any time.

You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

(emphasis mine) That means that it's the only right or remedy you get for disputes with Valve. They're really bent on not allowing lawsuits.

This section also provides the terms of cancellation. If your account is canceled by you or Valve, you will have to pay anything charged from before your cancellation. Also, Valve may CHOOSE but is not required to give you stand-alone versions of your purchases (so you probably won't be seeing your steam games again).

Sections 2(D), 2(E), 7, 9, 10, 11, 13(D), 14, and 15 will survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.

Again, contract terms you apparently can't escape unless some government court forces Valve to drop it. Not good (although they probably WILL drop as soon as any court of law is involved).

14. APPLICABLE LAW/JURISDICTION

...any legal proceeding by you against Valve shall be commenced and maintained exclusively in any state or federal court located in King County, Washington...

Finally, a company that just chooses the place it's from for legal jurisdiction. Apparently this doesn't apply to EU customers (I guess they get... some European court?)

In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.

So, if you put out a lawsuit against Valve and win you have to pay the legal fees, which are pretty much guaranteed to be more money than you will ever spend on Steam (unless you have a serious spending problem).

15. MISCELLANEOUS

In the event that any provision of this Agreement shall be held... to be unenforceable, such provision will be enforced to the maximum extent permissible...

Wow. In other words, they will try to enforce any bit of the agreement, even within a portion that a court of law has ruled to officially be BS.

Valve's obligations are subject to existing laws and legal process and Valve may comply with law enforcement or regulatory requests or requirements notwithstanding any contrary term.

This just means that if the cops come asking for chat logs, Valve won't check their EULA first.

You agree to comply with all applicable import/export laws and regulations of the United States and its governmental and regulatory agencies...

Well I guess that makes sense, being that this comes from the US...

You agree not to export the Software or allow use of your Account by individuals of any terrorist supporting countries...

AMERICA: Stopping terrorists from playing video games! Apparently they don't want to give them any software encryption tools, and since Steam uses software encryption, it's out.

We're done!

Remember- when it comes to business law, everyone is a dick! What do you guys think we should do next?

[Thexor]

Hold on...

In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.

So, if you put out a lawsuit against Valve and win you have to pay the legal fees, which are pretty much guaranteed to be more money than you will ever spend on Steam (unless you have a serious spending problem).

Maybe I'm reading this wrong... but my interpretation of "prevailing party" is "the person who won", and "entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses" indicates that someone else is paying said fees. Doesn't this clause actually mean that the loser of a lawsuit is responsible for the victor's fees and expenses? It's still bad (Valve spends millions on high-priced lawyers, wins, and you're now on the hook), but it's a lot better than you paying Valve's fees if you win.


Other than that, interesting. I guess a 30-day warning (and with them actually having to notify the user, not just put up an amendment that you might not be informed of) is better than nothing!

[The Scout]

So.... this contract is all ways valid, and if you have a problem, they can delete your account and be on their marry way? WHY SO MEAN VALVE

[Neonivek]

So.... this contract is all ways valid, and if you have a problem, they can delete your account and be on their marry way? WHY SO MEAN VALVE

Not really depending on where you live.

For example in many countries a EULA is considered instantly invalid because it requires you to purchase the product before signing the contract (essentially invalidating it) as if it was legal it would be taking someone's money, never to return it, whether or not they agreed to their contract (Imagine if Cars worked that way "I want to buy that car", "Ok it costs this much", "Ok here you go", "Thanks now that I have your money I will make you sign a multipage contract", "No, I don't want to", "Ok fine", "Uhh do I get my money back", "Heck no! you bought the ability to sign this contract you didn't buy the car", "Wait so you own the car too? I thought you just owned the intellectual property of the car", "No we ALSO own your car, you just have the ability to hold onto it unless you sign this contract at which point we fully own it". In some the fact that no one ACTUALLY reads the EULA is one of the reasons why it has little legal power.

In the USA the EULA's have more legal bearing, as far as I am aware, not because the contract is completely valid but because by law they are allowed to uphold legal parts of a contract. (at least that is what someone said to me. Since I was quickly able to pick out illegal sections of the EULA, but they said as long as one section was "legal" or "valid" then that one section would be valid)

In otherwords making all those insane demands in EULAs actually is the way to go. By attrition your bound to get something right.

To me EULA's are frankly... shady.

Honestly I know how the laws work in my country surrounding contracts... but the way that one "lawyer" explained things to me it makes it sound like honestly... Every single movie EVER where someone was scammed/forced into signing a contract and forced to obey it is based upon actual american law. Is that true?

Mind you I still refuse to believe out of pure childish belief in the american legal system... that "We can change our contract on you at anytime without telling you" is legal.