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Author Topic: "You Can't Discuss Religion, That's Naughty (But Only If You're Athiest)"  (Read 24664 times)

Virex

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There's also the (small but non-negligible) risk of complications during the procedure to take into account.
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Leafsnail

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If my parents had decided the other way, I probably would have been pretty confused.
Without going into too much detail... I was never particularly "confused" about it even though my status was different to that of my father.

Hint; that thing evolved for a reason, and it was to protect something.
It's interesting - no matter how many times I reread this post, I can't tell whether "that thing" refers to circumcision as a practise or the foreskin itself.

There is quite a bit of argument that it is not cosmetic.  I would like the folks who argue that it is cosmetic to provide sources, which are both recent and well-sourced.
I'm pretty sure the burden of proof usually lies with those advocating a medical intervention.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 11:38:47 am by Leafsnail »
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Mindmaker

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There's also the (small but non-negligible) risk of complications during the procedure to take into account.
Well the possible long term effects are worse, if you ask me.

@Leafsnail:
From the context I would assume the foreskin.
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Africa

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Possible long term effects of circumcision or of non-circumcision?
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Quote from: Cthulhu
It's like using hobos to fight an eating-resistant baloney epidemic.

Mindmaker

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On which side of the argument have I been all this time?
Long term effects of circumcision, of course.
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Strife26

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Long term effects: Anti-Semitic sentiment continues to rise as serious Jews commit a felony for their religious beliefs. Eventually, the United States faces continued internal pressure to stop supporting Israel which somehow loses a war against the Middle East. They, as per doctrine, employ the Samson Option and share their nukes out amongst everyone whom they think is responsible, including DC and Moscow (DC being added, Moscow's always been there). Perimytr gets activated, and soon Russian and American nukes are flying, with French and English ones following about a minute after the Russian ones and two minutes before the American ones. Pakistan and India get in a very messy tac-grade nuclear war while the People's China invades the Republic of China. The Pope leads a new army of the faith to reclaim the ancestral lands of the Vatican while Angora allies itself with Switzerland and Lichtenstein, surviving the Nuclear destruction of the developed world to become the power opposed to the Pope.

TL;DR" Long Term effects are that humanity dies.
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Nikov

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Trim your weenies to prevent global nuclear war, kids!
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Now that would be a different type of endtimes novel.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Strife26

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Who wants to write it?

Touches the tip of his nose.
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Mindmaker

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Well done, Strife.
That was glorious  :D
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scriver

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Strife, you have now convinced me to fight circumcision with all my might. Only then can I fulfill my dream of leading a ragtag bunch of misfits against mutant snow-scooter gangs in the freezing, post-apocalyptic winter wonderwasteland.
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Love, scriver~

Vector

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I'm pretty sure the burden of proof usually lies with those advocating a medical intervention.

Meh.  As I said, STDs, blah blah blah blah blah.

On the other hand, phimosis can apparently often be cured by changing the way one masturbates, which is cool, I guess.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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SalmonGod

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I'm still not convinced that there's any reason to be so against it.  Parents are typically free to raise their children in any way they please, unless some specific can be proven to have negative effects.  No one has convinced me of any negative effects besides their own revulsion.

If you really want to rage about parents physically marring their children, how about baby formula?  Millions of parents crutch on it for convenience, even though doctors practically beg them to favor breastfeeding, as it's proven to be much much more healthy.  Our doctors even had a special gift basket and a reward at the one year well child check-up for breastfeeders.  This is a choice which greatly effects early development with life-long consequences.  Add to this some recent cases of manufacturers cutting corners, resulting in thousands of infants hospitalized with likely permanent organ damage on top of stunted development from lack of breastmilk.  And yet this is another issue where personal revulsion, similar to that for circumcision, has resulted in people seeking to ban the practice of breastfeeding from public or even encouraging its abandonment entirely.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MetalSlimeHunt

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I'm still not convinced that there's any reason to be so against it.  Parents are typically free to raise their children in any way they please, unless some specific can be proven to have negative effects.  No one has convinced me of any negative effects besides their own revulsion.
Violation of the child's freedom and right not to have parts cut off of them for cosmetic effect.
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If you really want to rage about parents physically marring their children, how about baby formula?  Millions of parents crutch on it for convenience, even though doctors practically beg them to favor breastfeeding, as it's proven to be much much more healthy.  Our doctors even had a special gift basket and a reward at the one year well child check-up for breastfeeders.  This is a choice which greatly effects early development with life-long consequences.  Add to this some recent cases of manufacturers cutting corners, resulting in thousands of infants hospitalized with likely permanent organ damage on top of stunted development from lack of breastmilk.
Very unfortunate. Manufacturers get away with far too much. Nothing to do with circumcision.
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And yet this is another issue where personal revulsion, similar to that for circumcision, has resulted in people seeking to ban the practice of breastfeeding from public or even encouraging its abandonment entirely.
I don't care if people want to breastfeed in public. Hell, I don't even care if people want to walk around naked in public all day long. Neither of those issues has anything to do with slicing up infants who cannot consent.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Leafsnail

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Meh.  As I said, STDs, blah blah blah blah blah.
Is there... strong evidence that it helps on that front?  Certainly the evidence I've seen has been pretty mixed.

On the other hand, phimosis can apparently often be cured by changing the way one masturbates, which is cool, I guess.
And by balloons, according to what I presume is the same source.  Although the technique recommended for curing it via masturbation left me seriously wondering what alternatives there are.

@SalmonGod: But, uh, isn't there quite a substantive difference between using the natural method of feeding a baby and using interventive surgery to remove part of the body?  I don't think the two things are remotely comparable, to be honest.
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