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[Lord Inquisitor]

circumcision is also done for medical reasons

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... the other stuff is debatable, too.  Plenty of people believe that vaccinations may have long-term side effects.  Plenty of children are wrongly medicated, with dangerous repercussions.  It's easy to inflict long-term psychological damage on a child without being directly abusive.  Hell, plenty of people think it's cruel to give a kid an unusual name or dress them in colors not traditionally aligned with their gender.

Yeah, removing foreskin is a permanent alteration, but it's incredibly minor and I've never seen a convincing argument that it's harmful in any fashion.  I think people have massive knee jerk reactions to the issue just because any thought associating sharp objects with a penis is cringe-worthy to anybody who has one, and then their mind races to demonization involving a lot of shallow hyperbole.

Edit:  Basically the entire process of raising a child is one of shaping a person.  Every decision you make as a parent has permanent effects on a child.  The diet a parent provides physically shapes a child even more than circumcision with even greater potential to be clearly harmful, but nobody here is arguing to outlaw McDonalds.

[Vector]

The other key argument is:

Permanent.

Yes.  So are a lot of medical procedures.

If it helps protect the child, then I believe Health > Permanence.  If it doesn't, then fuck that noise because people should stop.

[Glowcat]

If it helps protect the child, then I believe Health > Permanence.  If it doesn't, then fuck that noise because people should stop.

My thoughts exactly.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If it helps protect the child, then I believe Health > Permanence.  If it doesn't, then fuck that noise because people should stop.

There is little evidence to suggest that circumcision protects against HIV. The largest study suggesting this was run by the UN, but I have heard more than once that they stopped their study early when results were showing that it did not have an effect. As this is the same organization that had such brilliant ideas as putting Iran on an International Women's Right's Council, I can totally believe that they would act in an unprofessional and unscientific manner about this and as such I do not trust their study's results.

Here is a statement by the American Acadamy Of Pediatrics, stating that there is not sufficent evidence to suggest circumcison is useful or required.

[Aqizzar]

I don't know what possessed me to check this thread recently, but as long as people are offering reasons for and against early circumcision, I might as well add another take on the matter.  My father was circumcised as an infant, probably because his family was at least somewhat religious and traditional then, but it's honestly never come up in conversation; the religion has long since gone out of the family.  When I was born, my parents decided I should be circumcised (and as an infant, since it's common enough that there's no reason not to do it sooner than later), specifically so that as a small child knowing nothing about the world, I wouldn't be confused by a gross difference between my penis and my father's.  As a man who loved camping and beer, we peed in many a river side by side.  I honestly didn't know what circumcision was until I was a teenager, I'd never seen or heard of anything otherwise.  If my parents had decided the other way, I probably would have been pretty confused.

[SalmonGod]

I'm much the same as Aqizzar, non-religious, circumcised, and unaware of it until my mid-teens. 

I had my kids circumcised for basically the same reasons.  The decision was left to me.  It had never been an issue for me, so I didn't see it as a major decision.  I could only image that it would be more difficult to keep clean if uncircumcised, and be one thing, however small, that I wouldn't be able to relate to my children on... so I thought "why the hell not?"  I honestly couldn't think of any reason not to.

So far, I've had no reason to regret the decision, and doubt I ever will.  The only problem I've ever had is when uncircumcised people bring it up and are absolutely horrified by my decision, which perplexes and slightly offends me.

[Strife26]

Banning circumcision is stupid, would certainly cause more harm than good and specifically targets a religious group. If we want to start banning all the irreparable harm that parents do to kids, we're going to have a long list.

[Mindmaker]

Uh, yes you can.  Foreskin restoration surgery exists.

Uhm, but from what I know it's simply stretching the remaining skin. Hardly a restoration.
Anyway, the simple existence of it may indicate that people are wrong when they say circumcision is only an issue for uncircumcised people.

I could only image that it would be more difficult to keep clean if uncircumcised, and be one thing, however small, that I wouldn't be able to relate to my children on...

So it was basically to make life easier for you.
Please just stop propagating it for anything other than tradition, that long since lost it's meaning.

[breadbocks]

I swear, Mindmaker is just in this to troll.

When you were a teen, did you not pop your zits, or otherwise get rid of them? Was there any physical harm in it? No? Then why did you do it? To have better hygiene? Yeah.

[Mindmaker]

I swear, Mindmaker is just in this to troll.

I could say the same about the other side.
"Hurr, I haven't seen any evidence to support that claim", when it's right there! It's been posted over and over again. At least take it into account. Argue about it.
When you can't be arsed to read up on the subject, by following up on the sources and arguments brought forth by the participating parties, than just state your opinion and be done with it.
You're however unfit to participate in a discussion with that attitude.

When you were a teen, did you not pop your zits, or otherwise get rid of them? Was there any physical harm in it? No? Then why did you do it? To have better hygiene? Yeah.

And I'm the one who's trolling? Really?

[SalmonGod]

I could only image that it would be more difficult to keep clean if uncircumcised, and be one thing, however small, that I wouldn't be able to relate to my children on...

So it was basically to make life easier for you.
Please just stop propagating it for anything other than tradition, that long since lost it's meaning.

To make an already monumentally difficult and important task easier without any compelling reasoning against doing so, yes...

[Dwarf]

I swear, Mindmaker is just in this to troll.

What? Why?

[Vector]

One of the things I learned over the past year is that when you focus mostly on making everything easier for other people, and sacrificing everything you can, there's nothing left for you--and no one's going to make that sacrifice in your direction without a really compelling reason.

[Nikov]

Nurse: "So have you and your wife decided about circumcision?"

Me: "We're not Jewish."

Nurse: *chuckle*

And then when I'm not around they come rushing up to my wife trying to convince her we need a circumcision. Health care professionals, not ignorant religious zealots. So there's some strawmanning to consider dispelling. Also compare cleaning and infection risks of a circumcision to cleaning and infection risks without. Hint; that thing evolved for a reason, and it was to protect something. Ultimately this comes down to a parent's choice. Screaming newborn infants aren't expected to consent to life-risking major surgery much less a minor, ten thousand year old, purely cosmetic and all-but-completely-safe proceedure.

However I would like to congratulate B12's forum on engaging in debate on a subject I previously only saw on my wife's expectant mother's board. There will be Ben and Jerry's and a showing of Sleepless in Seattle in thirty minutes, bring your tissues.