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Author Topic: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!  (Read 3535 times)

Phanixis

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Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« on: June 12, 2011, 06:37:45 pm »

Ok, the dwarven military management is giving me an aneurism.  Nothing is working right!  I now have several problems:

1.) Desertion - Military dwarves just up and quit their post

2.) Training - Some dwarves will train fine.  Others, in the same squad, will be listed as "cannot follow orders"

3.) Equipment - Dwarves will not equip themselves according to their uniform, even if the equipment is available.

4.) Mystery Recruits - Some dwarves that I have not recruited under the military and nobles screen have become recruits.  This is a problem, as these dwarves have valuable civilian skills.  My master woodcutter is a recruit, and I cannot seem to free him from military service.
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Montague

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 06:50:59 pm »

1. yeah, dwarves do that. You can mitigate this by equipping them with backpacks and waterskins so they will eat and drink on station. You can also circumvent this by making your posts training barracks, so they are guarding while they train.

2. "cannot follow orders" can be a hundred different things. I don't want to speculate, but try lowering them minimum number of dwarves needed to train, down to 3-4 rather then 10 like it has default.

3. Something might be 'wrong' with your uniform that makes it impossible for them to equip everything. Dwarves will not equip leather armor and breastplates at the same time, for example and they will also shed excess clothes to make room for armor items.

4.It confuses me trying to remember who is in the military or not. I give all militia guys a custom profession, like, "Soldier-Mason", so I know who to put into squads and who not to.

Those are my best guesses, anyways.
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 06:52:38 pm »

Do you switch saves without closing Dwarf Fortress?
There's a bug that messes with military if that happens, I don't know if it's been fixed.
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Phanixis

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 06:54:48 pm »

In regard to 4, I never made my woodcutter a recruit, he just became one.  And I cannot unrecruit him because he is not listed under the military screen.

I may have to abandon my fortress because I cannot get the military to work.  I start a game from scratch using the latest version of dwarf fortress available.  My current game was actually ported in from a much older version of dwarf fortress.
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 10:47:53 pm »

The woodcutter situation is problematic, if he is a recruit he must be under the military screen, if he gets dropped from the military he would no longer be a recruit, but a woodcutter.  So either you have two and are confusing them, or something else like it.

If they are "soldier can't follow orders" it usually means you did not assign the squad proper training barracks--this is most common with marksdwarves who get shooting ranges but not a simple armor stand to practice biting and crossbow bashing, which they will still try to do and "soldier".  Check if each of your squads is actually allowed to train at the barracks.

What is the precise equipment problem you are facing?

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celem

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 03:25:22 am »

If you have enough armor and your uniform is 'legal' with regard to sizing/shaped limits then its probably civilian clothing taking up slots for armour.  in the military screen toggle 'r' to have the uniform replace clothing. (I think its actually under schedule m-s and may need to be done on a 'per squad' basis)

Military dwarves leave their post a lot.  While montague is right with backpack and waterskin/flask to let them eat and drink on station there are other things that can cause this.
If the dwarf was hauling when you gave the station order they tend to respond while bringing the hauled item.  The moment the arrive on station they'll turn and head back to the stockpile to unload before returning to station again.  I.E. If the dwarf was drinking he brings the barrel, then returns it, then comes back to station.

Cannot follow orders is a weird bug.  Probably several inter-related bugs.  One symptom is that if you station a squad and later send them back to regular schedule by canceling the order, then over the following years your militia that are not training will often wander out to their latest station point with 'cannot follow orders'  they idle a bit there and return.
To avoid this, when about to release my soldiers I always re-station them inside the main hall before canceling.  This at least lets you select where this phantom destination will be (safe and close to barracks is best).
 Note that if resetting their latest station like this then the point only seems reset when they arrive at it, that is, you send them somewhere and it becomes their new latest point once they stop moving and consider themselves 'arrived', not when you issue the order.

The woodcutter who volunteered is almost certainly the old save/load military bug.  This is close to how it looked to me.  I experienced legendary soldiers dropping from their squad and the military screen so that they could never be reassigned to the military. (Caused by save fort A, load fort B without complete game exit)  I've also had random haulers take recruit profession tags and gear up when not in any squads, since he was still listed in the pool of available recruits he couldnt be removed and I settled for adding him properly.
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Phanixis

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 10:29:40 pm »

Thanks for all the advice, especially the markdwarves needing a barracks thing.  So should I give them a barracks in addition to a shooting range?  I would prefer that they be at the shooting range, not the barracks.

You know what might be causing the woodcutter problem.  I am usually careful to let my game save completely before loading.  But occasionally I get illegal operation while saving which forces the program to shut down in the middle of the operation.  Maybe I need to fix that.
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Phanixis

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 11:12:43 pm »

Well, I got them to train except the are not training.  I got two dwarves organizing demonstrations and 3 dwarves waiting for a demonstration and no dwarves training.  Training minimums are 3 and 2 respectively, so at least one squad should begin training, but neither does. 

Of course it might not matter, because I just suffered another illegal operation upon saving, while it was cleaning up game objects.
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 03:30:46 am »

demonstrations are training, they show each other skills until they are about level with one another. then they spar
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 03:32:43 am »

i like keeping the squad percentage actie high 6-7/10 since i think, mYbe wrongly, that it speeds the demostration doing along, and lets the vets not waching the kicking training spar one another.
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Darkmere

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 10:49:40 am »

If you want marksdwarves to train archery more than biting, disable all their labor and leave them on an inactive schedule. They'll go do archery practice when idle, which is all the time. This goes through a LOT of bolts, be ready.
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Fredd

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 03:42:20 pm »

Darkmeres idea hit the nail on the head. Any month with no scheduled order on the squads schedule, will target practice if no job shows up. The difference between Active, and Inactive schedules is under Active, will not wait as long for a job shows up, to go to target practice. If you really want to be evil, set up a danger room training barracks for them. While they are watching, giving demonstrations, will also be dodging, parrying, blocking the training spears in the trap. A side benefit is that it also increases hammerdwarf skill. Very nice if they ever get stupid and try to bash a enemy. So 1 month/training order, next 3 months no scheduled order. Repeat.
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Phanixis

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 09:42:40 pm »

Ok, I will try the no schedule approach to training marksdwarves.  I can live with running out of ammo(I will just make metal ammo that they will only use during combat) if the bloody dwarves will just train.

Also, the problem I am having with the demonstrations is that the dwarves are waiting for the demonstrations to begin, not that they are occurring.  I would be happy if the dwarves actually participated in said demonstrations instead of waiting for them indefinitely.
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cephalo

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 10:19:35 pm »

My advice would be to not try to use separate combat and training bolts. I tried that and it failed miserably. You just have to get used to using steel bolts in practice and bone bolts in combat.
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Montague

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Re: Gaahh! - Need Dwarven Military Help!
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 12:45:38 am »

Ok, I will try the no schedule approach to training marksdwarves.  I can live with running out of ammo(I will just make metal ammo that they will only use during combat) if the bloody dwarves will just train.

Also, the problem I am having with the demonstrations is that the dwarves are waiting for the demonstrations to begin, not that they are occurring.  I would be happy if the dwarves actually participated in said demonstrations instead of waiting for them indefinitely.

This here is because your squad "minimum" is set too high. If its set at ten, they will wait and wait until, by some incredible twist of fate, the planets align so that all 10 dwarves in a squad are available and ready to attend the demonstration, rather then eating/drinking/injured/sleeping/working/ or whatever. If their personality tag doesn't have something like "Has a sense of duty" they probably won't show up at all if there is anything at all else they could do, like attend a party or admire a statue.

So bring it down to 3 or so, so they can be flexible. Worst case, the lazy, undutiful dwarves die horrible deaths in combat because they've missed 9 out of 10 drill sessions and have little skill in combat.
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