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[thunktone]

Not sure this gets around the problem of mixing liquids. If you just have one semi-solid that always sinks then that is pretty simple, but you mention using the same for sand or mud. Which brings back the problem: what happens when sand and mud flow together? I'm going to drop this subject now though, unless I think of a solution to propose. I hope I'm missing something obvious as doing Navier-Stokes approximations seems out of the question.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

It's pretty much impossible to separate sand, mud and waste. So one could simply make new substances for the mixed states that absorb quantities of both materials.

[antymattar]

It's pretty much impossible to separate sand, mud and waste. So one could simply make new substances for the mixed states that absorb quantities of both materials.

And what happens when those mix?

[nanomage]

It's pretty much impossible to separate sand, mud and waste. So one could simply make new substances for the mixed states that absorb quantities of both materials.

And what happens when those mix?

i think if you want this done right you'll have to have a damned huge multidimensional table containing all possible interations between all existing liquids under all possible temperatures and pressures. The interaction then will take time to complete and can be interrupted ol altered if contents of the tile changes.
That's what seems right. And you'll have to keep track on how much of each liquid is there on the tile up to some (previously specified) accuracy.
Like, specify accuracy of 0.01 and you'll have consider a tile where there's .14 mercury, .50water, .11wine(which is in turn .9 water and .1 alcohol),.17 dwarf blood with the rest being air under 300K and normal pressure.
You look into your badass table where everything is written and conclude that mercury sinks to the fllor of the tile, other things start to form a solution on top of it, to complete it after 47 frames, and then you'll have to calculate the flow for each of liquids (mercury and water-based blood and alcohol solution) independently and recalculate solutions when something else is thrown in the mix.
The thing will murder your processor without any doubt, but any other way just doesn't seem right. The only thing i can imagine to make it less FPS-murderous is lower the amount of liquids by all means possible, like only leaving water, magma as generic molten rock, alcohol and generic blood. That's pretty much the same we have today, except there's no alcohol or blood.
edit: and it'll murder your ram, too, because it is very much info per tile to store. Or, if you dump that to disk for some tiles, it will murder some more fps.

[Doomchild-]

just thinking out loud here:

make liquid waste so it automatically sinks to the bottom of water (1/7 waste, covered by 6/7 water) and push the 1/7 water upward.
additional waste behaves as water, if there is already a layer of waste present it moves to an adjecent tile untill it can settle as a bottom layer, if it cant find a wasteless-tile it'll form a second layer.
when it reaches flowing water (river/brook/any watertiles that cause waterwheels to turn) it will 'follow' the flow untill it is carried off-site.
any water with waste in its tile or in an adjecent tile is contaminated/not drinkable. any tile with more than 4/7 waste/water or tiles with only waste spread stench/miasma.

this means: septic tanks can overflow, sewers without active flow will always have a layer of waste, rivers/brooks are natural disposal systems, sewer drains can be made with some dwarven engineering.

alternatively you could introduce a new 'sludge'shoveler profession or labor (alternative punishment anyone?), let waste not evaporate and drain the sewers of water, send in your dwarves with shovels and buckets and use the resulting sludge to fertilize farms, press it into 'logs' to use as non-refined fuel, give your guests a shower, create a !!sludge!! moat/pit or use drawbridges to fling !!sludge!! at the local monkies. be creative

... mfw i'm already thinking up plans for flushing toilets, siphon drains, sewage collection tanks, overflows... "Urist, the toilet stinks like a rotting goblin, next time pull the lever after you're done!"

[antymattar]

Yess, Pull the lever will ya? 

[Teamwork]

Why not,

"7/7 water laced with [a bit/ some/ much/ a large amount] of Dwarven waste" ?

This system already exists, so why don't we use it.

[antymattar]

because its not considered shit.

[cameron1124]

I think it doesnt serve much of a practical purpose. Yes it will add a new mechanic but is that mechanic any fun (in both terms)? Does it add anything to gameplay? I think no, besides shits and giggles via putting it at the end of your dodge- fall traps it serves no purpose except as another recource to consume and it doesnt even  give anything back to you (unlike food with keeping your dwarves alive and booze keeping them happy.). Also exactly why does this have to be the start of semi liquids or mixing liquids? blood would be better as a liquid considering it isnt needed but adds to the cool factor of things. and why cant snow be a semi liquid?

It just doesnt add anything worthwile.

[JasonMel]

I think that if you're concerned about possible realistic environmental impacts of a large settlement, you don't have to look to unimplemented bodily functions. Just think about the solid waste problem. The way it's dealt with now is to have an infinite amount of waste stored in a single square. Before that, it was dealt with (I gather) by disposal within a bottomless "chasm." I think realistic landfilling, recycling centers, and maybe even cogeneration (so to speak) furnaces which could burn waste and power a forge or something are all possibilities.

[Othagrujit]

Hey guys! I've found something else dwarves could use the "waste" for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1N6QfuIh0g

[thunktone]

I think it doesnt serve much of a practical purpose... Also exactly why does this have to be the start of semi liquids or mixing liquids? blood would be better as a liquid considering it isnt needed but adds to the cool factor of things. and why cant snow be a semi liquid?

No reason at all it should be the first semi liquid. I think it should only be considered after those are implemented anyway. But if and when that groundwork is done (for blood, sand, snow, whatever) I do think it would make a good addition to fortress design and farming. It would also be something that gunpowder mods could make use of for producing saltpetre.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

I think it doesnt serve much of a practical purpose. Yes it will add a new mechanic but is that mechanic any fun (in both terms)? Does it add anything to gameplay? I think no, besides shits and giggles via putting it at the end of your dodge- fall traps it serves no purpose except as another recource to consume and it doesnt even  give anything back to you (unlike food with keeping your dwarves alive and booze keeping them happy.). Also exactly why does this have to be the start of semi liquids or mixing liquids? blood would be better as a liquid considering it isnt needed but adds to the cool factor of things. and why cant snow be a semi liquid?

It just doesnt add anything worthwile.

waste management would add realism to the game, the game models dwarves wearing socks, it models dwarves combing themselves and braiding their whiskers, yet it doesn't model a system that is much more meaningful and adds much more to gameplay.

a small bunch of dwarves shouldn't produce enough waste to impact environment or to warrant a great effort from the player, but it would add a late game challenge, and the game needs those, as right now it becomes piece of cake after the first couple of years.
besides, designing sewers is fun, borking up the design and having your fortress start to flood with waste is fun, and having the sewers attract or even generate foul creatures composed of grime and filth is as fun as it gets.putting it at the end of your dodge fall is not fun, it's just just dumb. it's for people who mod their dwarves to have testicles to giggle when the combat reports report that urist lost his left

i also do not get what do you mean with "it doesnt even  give anything back to you (unlike food with keeping your dwarves alive and booze keeping them happy.)." many things in game don't give you anything back. it's called a challenge, you are meant to struggle with it and overcoming it is rewarding in itself. keeping your dwarves happy and well fed gives you nothing in return besides, well, keeping your dwarves alive, it's just things you do. this would be just another requirement to have a proper fortress: to be properly sanitized to avoid attracting pests, diseases, miasmas and general unhappiness, and you'd get all kinds of fun doing it

Hey guys! I've found something else dwarves could use the "waste" for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1N6QfuIh0g

you're shitposting...


damn! no pun intended, really

[Doomchild-]

you could also use waste to make methane gas which could be bottled by your dwarves and used to load fire traps or be shot out of catapults as incendiary ammunition. Urist mcPyro, legendary flamethrower dwarf?

as stated in my previous post, it could be used a cheap fuel for furnaces, maybe add a steampowerplant which uses the woodburning or furnace operating skills and the quality of the fuel determines the burntime/runtime of the plant with 1 fuel (worst to best: craplogs, wood, charcoal, coal, cokes)

also makes fortress design more complex as a sewer system would be needed to prevent smell/vermin, also natural buildup of methane gas could turn your fortress into a firestorm, insufficiently defended sewers could open you fortress to infiltration swimming invaders.

it could also be used to enhance soil and allow the farming of special mushrooms (iirc the most consumed type of mushroom grows on horsemanure, but i could be wrong)

waste trenches (like a ditch but can be crossed) could be used as defenses, lit them on fire and they will rapidly spread the fire in the direction you want it to go(though since fire doesn't really deter or even bother creatures this is mainly a slow killing technique)

[cameron1124]

It may add realism but is adding that type of realism good or bad? For instance you could argue that tropical diseases like malaria should be added because it makes the game more realistic and adds more challenge. but would it be any fun to have half of your fortress become sick without anything being able to be done about it? no.  I think that is would add bad realism.

 many parts of dwarf fortress are unrealistic, and for good reason. for instance would it be a good idea to add 10+ filler proffessions just to make tools? no it would be pointless and thats why it is abstracted out.

 exactly what does it add to gameplay? let me name a few recources ingame and what they give back. food= keeps dwarves alive booze= keeps dwarves happy cats= clear out pests and give meat, bones, and leather. the way you want waste implemented= keeps dwarves from being sad if gotten rid of and fertilizes fields (we already have potash for that) The major diffrence is that this is a recource that you would produce, despite them having no worth whatsoever. as opposed to other recources you produce because you want them.

Most chalenges in games do give something back. So that completing the challenge feels rewarding for instance, in RPGs if you defeat a strong creature, they drop strong loot thus rewarding the player for completing the challenge. In an FPS you might be rewarded with a cool new gun or a big explosion.

Also how does designing a sewer add to late game difficulty? you design it once and keep on updating it the more dwarves come until you rech about 200 dwarves. then it is never a challenge again because you dont need to worry about updating it.

It would just become a pointless recource that people would take 5 minutes in the beggining to deal with, 10 minutes in midgame to deal with. and 15 minutes lategame to deal with. and it wouldnt add much to gameplay.