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Author Topic: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!  (Read 19697 times)

Frumple

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - One enemy nation down, what's next?
« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2011, 06:49:39 pm »

Well, the crone isn't exactly a combat monster :P

Pretenders are roughly cut into three categories, the SCs (super combatants), the rainbows, and the bless-focused ones, though the third can blur into the first two pretty easily. SCs are monsters like the gorgon or prince of death, or the various physical monsters (dragons, giant bulls, krakens, etc, etc.). Those are combat monsters, usually ones specifically chosen and built to go up against large amounts of chaff (i.e. indie provinces), and are typically used to bash their way through the first wave of expansion. Later, they either get kitted out with impressive equipment or kinda' fade into the background, depending on what they're meant to do.

Rainbow pretenders are ones that have th'really cheap cost on expanding into new magic paths -- the crone is an excellent example of one. They tend to have very cheap costs, and very low natural dominion. They're either used for site searching, magic access -- shoring up paths their nation is missing, or helping said nation break into them (usually via forged boosters -- or both. They usually have a great deal of spread out magic levels, usually of lesser amounts compared to an SC or bless strat critter.

Bless pretenders are th'ones built to take advantage of blesses. They can be pretty much any chassis, but they tend towards the titans and their ilk, who like to have respectable magic levels in a couple paths. These paths tend to be shot straight up to level 9 or 10 in one or more magic schools, in order to unlock the secondary bless effects, which can be bloody gamechangers in some cases (Re: Jaguar warriors). Rainbow pretenders sometimes sacrifice a little diversity in order to get multiple minor blesses (level 4 plus) instead of one or two major ones. Bluerobin's lady of the spring is a titan, but not really a bless-focused one. She's got a minor nature bless (some regeneration), but that's about it.

There's also the "bugger the pretender" choice, which works terribly well against the computer, but I don't read about it being particularly viable in multiplayer stuff. Basically, go for whatever the cheapest chassis with the highest dominion is, imprison the bugger, forget magic paths, shoot scales through the bloody roof and get a nice dominion level to spread that all around.  More or less play the nation without a pretender :P
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Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - One enemy nation down, what's next?
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2011, 09:41:18 pm »

Friendly dominion boosts your pretender (and prophet) a certain amount per candle of dominion, enemy dominion decreases their stats (a similar percentage per candle). This makes it often much easier to defend with them, rather than attacking, unless your dominion is really strong and/or you have blood sacrificing priests. Hmm... which nations can blood sacrifice? I like that ability a lot (love domkilling) but I really dislike playing the more "evil" nations. Is there any other way to spread dominion, other than temples, prophet, pretender and priests (sort of)?

Working on the next post now, should be up fairly shortly.
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - One enemy nation down, what's next?
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2011, 10:15:56 pm »

Just a little one. Had a looooong day and I just want to go to bed :P
-----------------------------------------------------------
Early Winter-
Another blight struck Laerian Swamps this month, but the people have begun to expect them and plan for the hard times. The province to the southwest, the Marshlands, has established a traders guild to offset the effects of these blights. The fortress province of Sermioc to the north of the swamps held a market for the combined purpose of celebrating victory against Ermor and gathering support for the Laerians.
Spoiler: Free money! (click to show/hide)
It seems that the barbarians of the Great Desert don't appreciate the vanquishing of Ermor quite as much as we do, however, and they've taken the opportunity to begin raiding our northern provinces while the army is occupied. It's obvious that diplomacy is of no use in this situation, so the army is being sent out to... reason with them.
Spoiler: Armies moving out (click to show/hide)

Mid Winter-
I fear that not just the land was corrupted during the fall of this world, but the hearts of many men as well. The barbarians had always stayed in the desert before; were they disturbed by Ermor? By us? Or by something else? Regardless, the main army fought off the barbarians with no losses and are continuing northward to make contact with the amazons from Stene's reports. We've heard stories of them testing the might of visitors, so the army expects a surprise attack.  To begin an investigation of the remaining lands, a secondary army (although it can hardly be called secondary considering it boasts a full 60 troops) is being sent to claim the territory north of Sermioc that has thus far laid outside Ulmish influence. This army is being told to attempt friendly contact, but keep their weapons prepared. The Priest Smiths have resumed training in Ulm as well, sending the first trained Priest Smith north with the secondary army and the second south to make contact and build facilities for the Sea Fathers and Enchantresses.
Spoiler: Midwinter overview (click to show/hide)
Finally, the Master Smiths have begun crafting a few magical items each month, now that our stocks of magical gems are looking quite robust. The Smiths of the second army have been given Robes of Shadows to protect them, while the Siege Engineer Clodomir was given a Bow of War and asked to join the primary army with his sappers who are also trained with crossbows.
Spoiler: Robes and bows (click to show/hide)
Even the general populace is beginning to understand the importance of magical goods and the gold that it takes to train the Smiths that make them. When I first joined the Ulmish nation, most people had only disdain for magic and some even disbelieved its existence! It's interesting how being raided by groups of undead will change a person's opinions of a thing, often towards the practical. Gold and a magical item were donated to the church as part of a local wedding this month.
Spoiler: Goodies (click to show/hide)
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Neonivek

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2011, 10:51:27 pm »

Dang that bow is a weakling killer.

If only you could field a team of people using that thing.
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - One enemy nation down, what's next?
« Reply #109 on: June 26, 2011, 11:03:23 pm »

Hmm... which nations can blood sacrifice? I like that ability a lot (love domkilling) but I really dislike playing the more "evil" nations. Is there any other way to spread dominion, other than temples, prophet, pretender and priests (sort of)?

Working on the next post now, should be up fairly shortly.

From one of the wikis
Quote
At least the following nations can blood sacrifice. (Early) Manervi, Sauromatia, Abysia, Pangaea, Vanheim, Helheim; (Middle) Abysia, Vanheim; (Late) Marignon, Mictlan, Abysia, Midgard. (Based on the manual).

As for the dominion, there's the con 9 juggernaut (spreads dom like a prophet), and I think one, maybe two, items. There's more ways to lower it than raise it, iirc. Heretics, an item (stone idol, iirc. Forget what level it is.), some of the demon lords, probably some other junk. I think some spells will do that, too.

--

The serpent thing isn't exactly good, per se, but it's not bad, either, if you've just got a random item slot sitting around. An extra attack won't hurt, and the poison res won't either.

 The better 'extra attacks' accessory slot items are the stone bird (multiple attacks, so enemy's defense drops more, plus better chaff killing) and the dancing trident (length 6, for the the repel). I generally only use that kind of stuff if I'm doing something strange, like sending a flying (via shoes) dude with affliction-inducing weapons into the champion fights, usually when the AI decides to send their pretender into combat.

They're also fairly decent on assassins for similar reasons. Greater single-target wrecking, more attacks to reduce defense further.

The bow of war's nice, though you'll want to forge an eye of aiming for the user ASAP, to cut back on friendly fire a little. Ulm doesn't have to worry about that quite so much as some other nations, fortunately.
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gp1628

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2011, 08:55:36 am »

THE PATCH/UPGRADE IS OUT
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/DOM3/DOM3_page.html

Dom3Minions server will be down for patching. LLamaServer is likely to patch also. Now is the time to patch your copies.

ALSO its on SALE. The biggest sale ever for Dominions 3. All the way down to $40 *wow*
Altho you might also be able to tack another 10% discount on if you are university or american military
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 12:33:44 pm by gp1628 »
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Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2011, 07:54:09 am »

Ugh sorry for going AWOL people. This week has been pretty terrible on my free time. I have screenshots and notes set up for a small (two/three month) post, but I haven't even had time to finish that up and post it. Hopefully I'll get something up today, then maybe small updates daily until the weekend where I should be able to catch up a bit and make some progress.
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2011, 05:00:22 pm »

Most of the crappy week is over. Here's a bit of an update. The End of Year report will come with the next update.
------------------------------------------------------------
Late Winter-
The Smiths sent word this month they discovered methods for summoning natural beings skilled in death magic, the kokythiads and lamia queens. I've decided to let Nergash's contract lapse with this news in light of this news, and any further aid we require will be through the aid of these magically summoned and bound beings. The army sent a report that the Amazons did indeed fight back when the army arrived.
Spoiler: Battle Report (click to show/hide)
They have not offered to join us, but they've agreed to allow the province they guarded to join Ulm. I've told both armies to continue traveling to the northern edge of our dominion, the farthest we can safely travel without journeying into C'tissian swampland.
Spoiler: Late Winter Overview (click to show/hide)

This turn R'lyeh declared war on me. Again.
Spoiler: At war with R'lyeh (click to show/hide)
Here's one case where I kind of wish I was on the Something Awful forums because they have an awesome "What does it mean?" ghost emoticon that's very much relevant here.[/i]

Early Spring-
This month, on another tour of the growing nation of Ulm, I visited Tirannea to search for sites of power and explored the ones already discovered. The Painted Crypt struck me with awe as I entered. It was full of sorrow, but the people who built it had used the sorrow to build something beautiful. I had, in the past, known death to be beautiful in its own way, but it had been many years since I had seen something to remind me of this truth.

The primary army rode through Zocs this month as well, but reports of the land claim it, like most of the rest of the Great Desert, is simply a barren wasteland. The men are anxious to reach the coast, even with the presence of R'lyeh, simply to see lush lands and water again. The secondary army begins their excursion in to the Great Desert next month, beginning with another small barbarian uprising. Finally, a task force of black knights is being trained and will be sent out next month once training is complete and equipment has been forged.
Spoiler: Black knights (click to show/hide)
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #113 on: July 01, 2011, 10:24:15 pm »

Aaaand end of year update!
--------------------------------
First I wanted to point out a new addition in our magical item bag-o-tricks.
Spoiler: Lightless lanters! (click to show/hide)
They boost the research abilities of whoever's holding them by 6, doubling the output of the average Master Smith. They have a slight chance of attracting horrors from beyond reality to eat you whole, but I'm only putting them on Smiths I don't mind losing. And really the chance is pretty low.

Spoiler: Provinces (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Forts (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Income (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gem Income (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Research (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dominion (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Army size (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Global spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resource treasury (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Research progress (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hall of Fame (click to show/hide)
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Neonivek

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #114 on: July 01, 2011, 10:34:23 pm »

Wow... just contemplating the Lightless Lanterns is mind cripplingly confusing... and I mean if you read the description.

I see you still field the largest army of the obese Bluerobin... for some reason...
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2011, 11:48:35 pm »

Yaaay gems. We have so many. So many gems. I'll be using some of the water ones to summon death mages I think, and to help my armies get underwater. I also spent a bunch of nature gems on Gift of Health a while ago. I need to figure out what to spend earth gems on though because I have a lot and that number's only getting bigger. I guess I can always transmute them into gold (10 gold per earth gem isn't bad) if I need.

Delightful gems~

Let's see, for earth use... not sure. I'd probably be eyeballing the troll king, m'self, as far as conjuration goes. At least one, mebbe two -- they're base 3e guys that are a lot harder to kill with stray arrows than your 10% 3e smiths, so they'd be good candiates to follow the armies you expect to hit hard targets.. The go-to lowkey earth conj, cave drakes, wouldn't really help Ulm's already high prot armies terribly much.

Maybe have your pretender cook up a sea troll king and send it with its retinue and a few dozen clockwork horrors, which would at least be able to (probably) clean up some indie underwater stuff, let you get a lab under the sea for the nastier underwater conj stuff. A naiad might work, too. They're a bit cheaper and better mages (3w3n instead of just 3w), but they don't come with troops and lose 10% hp (i.e. 1) per turn they're away from the province they're summoned in. Also considerably squishier than a sea king. Sea kings also produce a water gem every turn, which is something. It'd take 55 turns to recoup the cost (if you can't find a conj bonus magic site), but still...

Summoning up some naiads to do misc. water conjuring (and forging, with some hammers handed out) might not hurt, either. Ice drakes are alright, and with some naiads you've got the makings to have dragon-master'd summoners bumbling about in strange places. Naiads can summon more naiads in whichever lab you want them to set up in, dragon master themselves, and start pulling in three ice drakes per four gems per turn. Ice drakes would be considerably more helpful than cave drakes, since they could add a lil'artillery to your map move 1 armies. A naiad with a thistle mace would be able to pop up living castles underwater once you hit conj 7, if you were feeling cheeky.

Dunno what else. You've got a couple of dudes monthly-casting the site searching spells, roight? A naiad or two for apsu and haruspex might be called for. You've got gnome lore easy, and augury and astral probing via your smith randoms. If you empower a naiad in death and give it a water robe, you could have Kokythiads, who could call up a few of the lower order death mages to do dark knowledge while your better death mages did other stuff. Or better yet, hit your pretender with a death empowerment -- she'd be able to call up kokythiads with that, which could forge a skull staff -- you'd be, I think, five turns from your pretender being able to summon lamia queens if you didn't alchemy up some extra death gems. Four turns, if you did. They can be a little scatterbrained as paths go, but you'd be looking at a possible 4d mage or blood access for 15 nature gems (well, and your pretender's time, heh.).

A 4d lamia queen with a skull staff can summon wraith lords, which are ridiculously vicious mini-SCs -- immortal, natural ethereal, and just enough death magic to cast soul vortex, though you're a ways away from having the research for it.

Well, I'm going to get conjuration to 8, maybe all the way to 9 just to finish it off. There's some good stuff there (death and air mages, for starters), so it's worth it.

You'll have sexier SCs at conj 8, though. I'd immediately try to get a lockdown on the earth kings, then alternate between iron angels and commander assassination via earth attack. Sounds terribly fun :P

Probably no point in going for conj 9, though. Only thing there you've really got a chance of casting is awaken tarrasque, which is alright, but calling them up would be eating at least one turn (probably two, to gift of reason them) of your pretender's time. You'd much rather be casting faerie court with your pretender. Air magic access!

It's way too easy to ramble for impressive wordcount when Dom3 strategy is being considered ::)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 11:56:42 pm by Frumple »
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Neonivek

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #116 on: July 02, 2011, 02:57:17 am »

Are the low level summons worth it?

I've tried to build up entire armies of summoned units and found they didn't really perform as well as I thought they would.
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gp1628

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2011, 08:29:38 am »

Are the low level summons worth it?

I've tried to build up entire armies of summoned units and found they didn't really perform as well as I thought they would.
I dont think very much works by itself. Most summons where you get multiples get referred to as chaff. They are meant to confuse the enemy, make them think your army is bigger, or just to take damage allowing other units to operate without distraction.

Some have attacks that can be useful WITH backup but are a joke if used by itself. Like doing sleep or paralysis. You have to include some damagers with those.

Some summoners you only get one and it usually has some special attack which makes it best to position it behind the chaff so they take the focus of the enemy army while the special one runs in and does its stuff on them while they are busy.

In general you should look at the attacks and defenses, group and position them, give them orders all based on their abilities. Just making a bunch of anything, and making an army out of it, doesnt tend to work too good
IMHO
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #118 on: July 02, 2011, 08:32:45 am »

Depends on how low-level you're talking about, and how many you have. The drakes are alright, especially with dragon master to improve gem efficiency, ferex. Cave drakes especially can be an early answer to a lot of some low-prot or low health nation's problems, and the fire and ice ones can add a nice lil'bite on the cheap that can still take a lot more of a hit than most recruitable troops. With dragon master, you're just getting a ruddy nice HP to gem ratio, if you just need something to arrow catch.

Just looking at level 3 or below in the schools (this is in CBM 1.6!), lemme' see if I can remember the notables...

In conj: Black servants are apparently alright mini-thug/raiders -- built in life drain and ethereal. Give 'em some armor (5 gem black steel and horror helm, maybe) and they'd do alright against lighter PD and indies. There's the drakes, as above, and sea serpents, which can help out most of the underwater nations in their indie-squishing -- as with the drakes, they're a lot of HP for a fairly low cost. Summon animals can be pretty interesting -- a lot of the units it pulls up is better than most plain human troops, and some (Moose!) are pretty beefy, which makes it a pretty good spell if you need something quick to catch arrows or blunt a cav charge or something. The awaken sleeper spell is a go-to for low-tier thugs, and banes are a 4 gem bane blade that walks around.

In construction, you've got clockwork horrors and corpsemen as summoned units. The clockworks are good for chaff, especially if you're someone without general amphibian access. They're especially notable when going up against large (size 4+ non-tramplers) enemies, as they're fairly small and have two attacks, so they're excellent at stripping defense away. Corpsemen aren't just souless -- they've got more hp and lightning immunity, and they're cheap as all get out. Not much able to summon them natively, but they're alright have some low-level mage you've got puttering around call up in between battles or shuttling troops. Extra chaff, if nothing else. E: Well and manikins and wooden constructs. The manikins might be interesting to throw at high encumbrance enemies, but they're otherwise mostly worthless as anything (and even, to a degree) except chaff. Wooden constructs are, again, mostly worthless. About the only thing I could see using them for is to distract the AI from actually useful large monsters, or if for some strange reason you really needed some extra no-morale HP somewhere in your lineup.

Enchantment has reanimation as about it for mass-summoning, and it's pretty worthless. Even at two gems, 10 longdead are kind a ripoff. But! Ench also has mound kings, which are basically the indie-commander of undead, and can lead things underwater if you need that sort of thing, and revenants, which are 9 gem dark knowledge casters, something your better death mages call up to free them up to do other things. They're also alright for chasing armies around spewing frighten at th'enemy. I also hear good things about watchers, but I've never personally used them. They've done alright when I've ran into them, though -- very tough, incredibly high precision lighting blasts, excellent patrollers if you can spare something to physically patrol a province.

And then there's blood magic, of course. Spine devils are one of the heaviest infantry units in the game, you've got bind devil and frost fiend, both solid for the price, and cross breeding, which can both produce a lot of chaff and some fairly impressive larger critters. Hella'good if you're running a luck 3 nation.

It's usually not a good idea to run a totally summoned army in the early game, though, for most nations. Summons are generally supposed to be force multipliers or used to plug holes in your army's TO&E, like no amph access or heavy inf/arrowcatchers, etc. Later, you've got the mage and gem output to really pull full armies out of the air, and they can be serious additions to your main combat line or raiding potential, especially in support of SCs, either directly in combat or by threatening the surrounding area while the big boys do the real damage. Early, though, they tend to be just garnish for your recruitable armies.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 08:44:22 am by Frumple »
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Bluerobin

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Re: Dominions 3 LP - Time to take out some indies!
« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2011, 10:32:28 am »

Hehe woooords! Thanks for the summaries Frumple. It kind of says something that posts that long about Dom3 can be considered summaries. I'd kind of forgotten about trolls and sea trolls, I'll definitely look into those and very likely use the sea trolls. Do regular earth Troll Kings generate earth gems like the Sea Troll Kings make water gems?

Edit: never mind, it doesn't look like it.
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.
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