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YO!

48 (19%)

I suspect I am, but am not diagnosed as such.

32 (12.6%)

NO!

164 (64.8%)

I've been diagnosed as such, but suspect I am not.

9 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 252

[Tellemurius]

To be fair, the thread got so derailed I was hoping for a lock or wipe.

Back on topics addressed before. Gene therapy is still in the experimental phases for highly genetic diseases such as CF, we're still a long ways off from pinpointing mental disorders in DNA, even though many of them have a highly genetic component.

So far antiRetroviral Gene Therapy works but its a bitch to find the gene carrier and tissue match at the same time. Testing to see if my tissue matches with my girlfriend so i can give her stems/platelets in case her ITP kicks in at any time.

[Bohandas]

To be fair, the thread got so derailed I was hoping for a lock or wipe.

Back on topics addressed before. Gene therapy is still in the experimental phases for highly genetic diseases such as CF, we're still a long ways off from pinpointing mental disorders in DNA, even though many of them have a highly genetic component.

If I hear so much as a peep about genocide or old-school eugenics advocating population cleansing I'm going to request a lock

Personally I think that we should cease and desist talking about X-Men 3-style eugenics as well...

[Vector]

Sorry, bro, but I don't think folks with AS are some kind of ubermensch master race.

[sonerohi]

Keyword is tried.
And yes, it's really bad etc, but I'm a. still unimpressed and b. if he was fat instead of an asparagus, they might've done the same. Kids are cruel not only to the socially inept, and asparagus do not have a monopoly on being bullied. Sometimes that results in death, but those occasions are very rare.

Shielding yourself from society is just a false sense of security; there will come a time when you have to face the big bad world.

A. Aspergers. Asparagus is a food and denotes a flippant attitude to how your speech reads.
B. The keyword is, in fact, tried, but not in the way you meant it. See, you act as if the failure to complete the action negates all meaning of the action. That it was even attempted, however, carries quite a lot of meaning.

Regarding more recent posts: I'm sort of torn about gene therapy. On one hand, it'd be great to sign up for something that makes me a better person, by my current metric. But then, the first people to stand upright probably wanted to slouch to fit in better. I don't know if one could classify Aspergers as better, evolution wise, but I'd be apprehensive to, en mass, move away from something until we've seen whether or not it is better. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but it'd be cool if I was.

[G-Flex]

I don't know if one could classify Aspergers as better, evolution wise, but I'd be apprehensive to, en mass, move away from something until we've seen whether or not it is better. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but it'd be cool if I was.

I'd rather we not have to assume that either is "better", or that such a term even has to apply. We're a social species, with division of labor, and diversity is important.


Asperger's is also something of a borderline (as in, closest to normal you can get while still being pathological) diagnosis with a relatively hazy definition* (still under revision, even), no known etiology, and probably the result of a fair number of influences and causes. It is not in any way a good candidate for gene therapy, ethics aside.


*This is why I take the disorder with a grain of salt. This isn't to say that AS is BS, but it's not a very difficult diagnosis to get, especially considering the current state of affairs in popular psychiatry, and how much a lot of people online seem to want to have it, whether it's because they want something to blame their problems on or want an excuse to not have to conform to social expectations of how they should act or what they should be doing in their lives. Obviously, this does not apply to anyone, and certainly some misdiagnosis is done without any fault being on the patient at all, especially if they're children.

[Vector]

I don't know if one could classify Aspergers as better, evolution wise, but I'd be apprehensive to, en mass, move away from something until we've seen whether or not it is better. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but it'd be cool if I was.

I'll add here that my personal opinion is that it takes both kinds.

Neurotypical folks can be trained to hone their concentration and logic.  Folks with AS can be taught to empathize.  We can learn to work together and play up our strengths, rather than calling everything abnormal weakness, and everything normal good--or vice versa.

I know there are folks with H/LFA who really, really want a cure, though, so this is a bit stickier than my admittedly simple opinions.

[G-Flex]

I think "taught to empathize" is a bit of a sticky wicket. Empathy in general is such a fundamental human faculty that I'm kind of skeptical about someone with a significant deficiency could improve it via education or training. Then again, I guess that's only for a certain definition of "significant", and we're talking AS here, not full-blown autism.

[Vector]

Empathy in general is such a fundamental human faculty that I'm kind of skeptical about someone with a significant deficiency could improve it via education or training. Then again, I guess that's only for a certain definition of "significant."

I should say instead "behave empathically."  It is teachable/learnable, even if it often ends up with only a trailing ghost of an emotion in rapid-fire, non-theoretical practice.  I generally can't really, truly empathize, but I can recognize good and bad situations and commiserate/congratulate as necessary.  I have a hell of a time putting myself in other people's positions without significant time to close my eyes and run a simulation.  And, I have pretty much no ability to say something without doing it bluntly and directly... I don't have enough guile to trap anyone, or even to suspect anyone of lying, and generally I agonize over truthfulness of word choice vs. effect.  I guess you could say my perception of the world is very flat.

So, uh, it works well enough that I'm functional, but I guess there are points when I probably come off pretty oddly.  I have learned one hell of a lot, though.  It's not like I was born in one place and stuck there.

[G-Flex]

I generally can't really, truly empathize

If this is true, it sounds a hell of a lot worse than simple Asperger's Syndrome. Much, much worse, and would demand a different diagnosis. There's a huge difference between problematic social development and "can't empathize".

I'm not saying that you're not telling the truth, but being unable to empathize with other human beings is a diagnostic criterion far beyond the realm of Asperger's/Autism Spectrum diagnoses.

[MorleyDev]

Empathy has two parts:
Cognitive Empathy :- Your ability to see a person's emotions.
Compassionate Empathy:- Your ability to then respond with the appropriate matching emotion.

Asperger's is typically characterised by being perfectly fine at the latter but failing at the former. So if you are told person X is sad, and person X is someone you regularly associate with (like a friend), an 'Aspie' will feel sad.

Anti-social behaviour disorder/Sociopathy/Psychopathy/Narcissism however, are typically characterised by being perfectly able when it comes to Cognitive empathy but incapable to experience Compassionate Empathy.

The former can be learnt, or at least approximated, by manually teaching yourself the rules of body language and being consciously on the look-out during conversation.

The latter can't be learnt really, but can be faked quite well which is what the effective 'socio' tends to learn. If you can see someone who is sad, who you know is sad (either by recognition or being informed), and who is someone you have vested interest in such as a friend or lover, yet be completely unmoved: That's a failure of compassionate empathy, not cognitive empathy.

Neurotypicals overall are capable of Cognitive and Compassionate empathy however have a notable ability to switch it off unconsciously, especially when group and herd mentality comes into play.

[G-Flex]

Empathy has two parts:
Cognitive Empathy :- Your ability to see a person's emotions.
Compassionate Empathy:- Your ability to then respond with the appropriate matching emotion.

Asperger's is typically characterised by being perfectly fine at the latter but failing at the former.

According to who? I know the diagnostic criteria, and that ain't one of them.


I'm also not sure I think your distinction is a good one. A sociopath can "see" another person's emotions, but they have to fake that as much as they fake their own response. For most people, taking note of another's emotions is very reflexive and emotional in itself, but a "sociopath" can't do that naturally.

[Bohandas]

Anti-social behaviour disorder/Sociopathy/Psychopathy/Narcissism however, are typically characterised by being perfectly able when it comes to Cognitive empathy but incapable to experience Compassionate Empathy.

So are successful careers in politics .

[MorleyDev]

According to who? I know the diagnostic criteria, and that ain't one of them.

Hence why 'normies' have trouble with the difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy#Cognitive_versus_affective_empathy

Rogers et al. suggest that one must differentiate between cognitive empathy and affective empathy when regarding people with Asperger syndrome. They suggest that autistic individuals have less ability to ascertain others' feelings, but demonstrate equal empathy when they are aware of others' states of mind. Autistic and AS people actually have a greater response to stress that they witness others experiencing than neurotypical people do

[G-Flex]

"Normies"? Are we really doing that now? Seriously?

Also: That quote doesn't differentiate well between different spots on the "autistic spectrum" (e.g. "asperger's" versus "autism"), and while it does refer to a slightly different empathic capability (and lessened in some ways), it still isn't a necessary criterion for Asperger's, and thus goes beyond that in the diagnostic sense, especially if we're talking about a very significant impairment.

[Vector]

If this is true, it sounds a hell of a lot worse than simple Asperger's Syndrome. Much, much worse, and would demand a different diagnosis. There's a huge difference between problematic social development and "can't empathize".

Bah, let me put it this way.

When I was a little kid, something bad would happen to someone and nothing would register for me.  Just... nothing.  It was just something happening in the environment.  After being ordered to basically "become less cold and unfeeling or else," I did a bunch of simple conditioning on myself.  "She hurt herself.  Vector, feel sad.  Do whatever you have to to feel sad.  Come on, Vector.  Good people feel sad about this, so get sad about it."  I remember sitting at my cousin's funeral and deciding that This Was An Event I Was Supposed To Be Sad About, and then eventually mostly feeling sad because I couldn't even manage to feel sad or care that the guy was dead.  Thinking about other people's feelings... no, that was impossible.  It was just a thing that had been there, and now wasn't there, to which I wasn't attached enough to mourn (even though I saw him many, many times every year).

I used to have my "best friend" crying in front of me.  I knew very well that she was sad.  But the only thing I felt was annoyance and exhaustion, every single time, because I could never manage to care at all for her feelings.

It works okay-ish now, I guess.  I've taught myself to behave the way I should in most situations.  Sometimes it works very naturally, which is nice.  I like feeling like a person.  Sometimes I can see that it's just ghosts flitting across the screen again, and somewhere between mechanical recognition and emotion the bridge is out.

But part of me knows that the reason why I get so angry about social injustices is because I love symmetry and hate imbalance, and people who are being asshats get in the way of that.  It's just one big problem, flawed in its execution, which I want to solve...

And this is why, no matter how lonely I get, I often end up feeling like it's my duty to work on problems instead of allowing myself to make friends or date.  There's some things my brain is good at and some things my brain isn't good at.  It's my responsibility to keep myself in the realm of things I'm not likely to fuck up when I'm having an off day.  I don't want to destroy someone else's life by saddling them with me.  I know that's a bad thing.