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[Zaroua]

To start this off: I've almost no experience using the arena, so if someone else wants to run similar tests or if someone finds a huge flaw in my methodology, feel free to correct what I've done.


I've set up a few different 10v10 dwarf fights using different gear and skill set-ups but always having one group using Steel Shields and the other group using blue metal shields. All dwarves always had Grand Master Armor User and Grand Master Misc Object User (which is the skill Shield Bashing uses from what I've been able to tell after training unarmed dwarves equipped with a shield vs goblins in fort mode), and they all used training wooden axes with no skill as axedwarves. I've tried equipping dwarves with a full set of armor (breastplate + 3 mail shirts + 6 cloaks, etc), using only metal armor, using only shaped armor and using different types of armor for each type of set-up. I tested copper armor, bronze armor and blue metal armor.

The results were always the same: crushing victory by the Steel Shield users with only minor bruises or broken fingers/wrists/feet/toes. The only deaths I've ever seen on the Steel Shield side were from punches/kicks fracturing the skull and tearing the brain or bleeding to death.

So does this mean that shield density plays an immense role when it comes to doing shield bashing?

[nanomage]

To start this off: I've almost no experience using the arena, so if someone else wants to run similar tests or if someone finds a huge flaw in my methodology, feel free to correct what I've done.


I've set up a few different 10v10 dwarf fights using different gear and skill set-ups but always having one group using Steel Shields and the other group using blue metal shields. All dwarves always had Grand Master Armor User and Grand Master Misc Object User (which is the skill Shield Bashing uses from what I've been able to tell after training unarmed dwarves equipped with a shield vs goblins in fort mode), and they all used training wooden axes with no skill as axedwarves. I've tried equipping dwarves with a full set of armor (breastplate + 3 mail shirts + 6 cloaks, etc), using only metal armor, using only shaped armor and using different types of armor for each type of set-up. I tested copper armor, bronze armor and blue metal armor.

The results were always the same: crushing victory by the Steel Shield users with only minor bruises or broken fingers/wrists/feet/toes. The only deaths I've ever seen on the Steel Shield side were from punches/kicks fracturing the skull and tearing the brain or bleeding to death.

So does this mean that shield density plays an immense role when it comes to doing shield bashing?

It does beacuse it's weapon's mass (shield's mass in our case) that directly determines  the energy of impact and thus its destructive force. What would be more interesting to find out is whether lighter shields do allow easier blocking or not.

[Doro]

well, you bash with shield, like you bash with mace or warhammer, and heavier the material is, more deadlier it is, and blue candy stuff is about lightest metal around there, so it isnt very good for bashing.  same thing with hammers and maces. candy metal is perfect for armours and good for cutting weapons though.

EDIT: no-one knows where the ninja goes :/

[Darkmere]

Common lore is that all shield materials block with the same effectiveness. Given the choice, copper shields are "better" than steel for the cheaper material and less smelting effort involved.

Edit: you're the ninja. it's you.

[Agent_86]

Also, having to carry around heavy objects will result in your dwarves slowing down.  Light shields are preferred if you want a nimble speedster dwarf.

[Angry Bob]

A good starter is wooden shields, since you'll likely have it right off unless you're on a glacier or something. No need to wait for a metal industry.

[EveryZig]

A good starter is wooden shields, since you'll likely have it right off unless you're on a glacier or something. No need to wait for a metal industry.

Maybe for you people who send woodcutters outside it works like that, but I always find wood is much more precious than sub-steel metals, as you need it for beds.

[Number4]

Good test. However shield bashes aren't that important IMO...only useful in a well-established fort where you can really optimize your military...otherwise, use what's there or what your workers can churn out with better quality (!)

[Girlinhat]

Using dual shields, are your troops twice as armored?  If so, use two-shield soldiers to take the aggro while marksdwarves rain fire.

[Angry Bob]

Using dual shields, are your troops twice as armored?  If so, use two-shield soldiers to take the aggro while marksdwarves rain fire.

I don't know if you can get a dwarf to equip more than one shield. That's something to try in Inkybarbs. I do know that if you use an exploit in adventurer mode involving removing items from packs, you can wield as many items as you want. It doesn't give you more attacks, but I don't remember if more shields meant a better chance of blocking. It did give you scads of opportunity shots, though.

A good starter is wooden shields, since you'll likely have it right off unless you're on a glacier or something. No need to wait for a metal industry.

Maybe for you people who send woodcutters outside it works like that, but I always find wood is much more precious than sub-steel metals, as you need it for beds.

Of course it depends on playstyle. I use a danger room for training, so I only need one guy(one shield) to begin with, and I need my wood for the ninety training spears that go in the danger room. Beds can wait.

Then again, I've plain forgotten about beds until the third year for a few of my forts, so there you go.

[Girlinhat]

You can assign multiple handhelds to a dwarf, so you can have a dwarf dual-wielding axes, or spears (lol) or shields.  I've done shields before, because at the time I thought I had found a glitch, and was trying to get a soldier to carry two shields, an axe, and a spear.  It didn't work, but I did get her to carry two shields.  I didn't check if they afforded double protection, because this wasn't the intent of the fort.

[Agent_86]

You can assign multiple handhelds to a dwarf, so you can have a dwarf dual-wielding axes, or spears (lol) or shields.  I've done shields before, because at the time I thought I had found a glitch, and was trying to get a soldier to carry two shields, an axe, and a spear.  It didn't work, but I did get her to carry two shields.  I didn't check if they afforded double protection, because this wasn't the intent of the fort.

But a dwarf dual-wielding steel shields... that truly is a force to be reckoned with.

[Girlinhat]

It depends.  If they get a 2x block chance, they'll get to Legendary Shield User very fast, and be all-but immortal, save for exhaustion.  If they only get the 1, then you're just wasting one arm.

[Agent_86]

WE NEED !SCIENCE! FOR THIS NOW!

[Montague]

This is my theory.

Dwarves only shield-bash if they're weapon gets stuck, or they have no weapon. Some weapons get stuck in enemies more then others.

So, if you use mostly axes, maces, hammers, ect, then use light, cheap shields like wood, copper, even leather or whatever, so its less of a weight burden.

If you use spears, picks, maybe swords, use a heavier shield, for the heavy-weight beat-down such a shield could do.

Bluemetal is probably the worst material either way. Its way too valuable for something where material is largely irrelevant and sheild bashing is determined by weight.

Alternatively, if you have professional soldiers and a "danger room", skills get leveled quickly and weight will be less of an issue.