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[kaijyuu]

You [/quote]'d your [url], FD.

[scriver]

Being sexy is a bit different then being Fanservice. Since any attractive person would usually fall into being sexy unless they have a child-like appearance.

No. As somebody from a culture where we doesn't constantly oversexualise our female characters (or, well, do it far less), I can tell you straight out that looking sexy is indeed, and very much so, fan service. There is no rational way of denying that. You not being able to see that seems to be a case of unfortunate "I'm unable to distande myself from and evaluate my own media culture, and think that it's the neutral baseline for everything just because I'm used to it" mentality.

[Neonivek]

No it is more of a result of the fact that people who look like those women are so unbelievably common that they actually fell outside of fanservice.

As in "They arn't special anymore"

Mind you that you also by that virtue put Superman into "Fanservice"

[Scelly9]

It is amazing how much Bay12 manages to derail things. I approve.

[scriver]

No it is more of a result of the fact that people who look like those women are so unbelievably common that they actually fell outside of fanservice.

As in "They arn't special anymore"

I'm not sure how to respond to this in a way that isn't incredibly snarky or demeaning. Suffice to say that no, they are not. Incredibly fit, big-breasted, long-legged, model-faced, amazonian women are not that common in the real world. If you believe that... Well, I don't know what to say. Your idea of "unbelievably common" women is simply skewed beyond reason.

Mind you that you also by that virtue put Superman into "Fanservice"

Yup, but of a different.kind, and this discussion is  focused on sexual fansservice.

[Neonivek]

Incredibly fit, big-breasted, long-legged, model-faced, amazonian women are not that common in the real world

In fiction they are.

To the point of being completely under the radar.

Also Scriver you are quite biased against women too in the sense that... If I am to translate what you said

A Tall, fit, beautiful woman... who also has modestly large breasts (and for some of the examples not even that) INSTANTLY falls into sexualised fanservice for you.

You have to give a little Scriver and allow women to at least fall within what a "Beautiful" adult woman can fall under, and then look at them in terms of fanservice.

In otherwords just because you are beautiful and wear clothes that demonstrate that you are so, doesn't mean you are instantly Fanservice.

Unless of course you are defining "Fanservice" as "Anything even slightly sexual". since the definition I use moves the bar a bit further.

For example I don't consider Talim in Soul Calibur to be Fanservice but Taki to be entirely. Mind you the spanking throw I have no response for since you can pretty much interpret it that way.

I also consider the Fanservice upgrade of Sophitia from 3 to 4 to actually be insulting to the character.

[scriver]

Incredibly fit, big-breasted, long-legged, model-faced, amazonian women are not that common in the real world

In fiction they are.

And fiction is full of fan service. By your logic, if whine is as full of fan service as you say it is, it wouldn't be fan service because of how normal it is. You either have a faulty basis for what constitutes as fan service or a self-defeating argument.

Also Scriver you are quite biased against women too in the sense that... If I am to translate what you said

A Tall, fit, beautiful woman... who also has modestly large breasts (and for some of the examples not even that) INSTANTLY falls into sexualised fanservice for you.

Nope. This is a strawman.

You have to give a little Scriver and allow women to at least fall within what a "Beautiful" adult woman can fall under, and then look at them in terms of fanservice.

Once again, those women are not just beautiful. They are oversexualised. The purpose of their sexyness is to be looked at by the audience, to service the fans.

[Neonivek]

Nope. This is a strawman

No it REALLY does. It is very easy to fall under it since you are stingent.

The purpose of their sexyness is to be looked at by the audience, to service the fans.

Ok, now lets just take "Sexyness".

So the main purpose of all sexyness is to give men boners?

Since that is "Service". Eye Candy and Service are different things.

I am seperating attractiveness from Fanservice. As well I am applying a shifting values bar.

[Svarte Troner]

Ohai guys. Cool thread you got here.

On behalf of everyone who has captured your thread, I apologise.

I'm actually rather entertained 

[misko27]

Okay, but now we're enterng the Freudian realm. At what point exactly does it stop being a normal person, or just a attractive person, and start being something where sex is on the brain?
 
The answer is sex is always on the brain, therfore all femals of any sort are Fanservice. Therefore, all females should be banned from the media. However, what about attractive/all men? We could ban women form watching television, but the gays stopped us there. Instead we should ban males from appearing on television. Only non-anthropromorthic autamatons.
[/freudparodyofthread]

[Reelya]

Chainmail bikinis on the girls whilst all the guys are in sensible armor is one of the giveaways. e.g. it's in how a character is used rather than them just being "attractive".

Whilst it's almost impossible to define a "line", there are clear examples where everyone can agree that it's about teh sex.

[Zangi]

If I may put forth a more specific example:
Wonder Woman, swimsuit model superhero. 
The male equivalents that come to mind, Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern and I don't know... its Justice League.  I don't remember much else about it, but they are the more iconic/memorable of the lot.
EDIT: Forgot to add in, them guys are clothed, but yea, spandex.

[kaijyuu]

The old superhero suits were modeled after swimsuits of the day, iirc.

[Vattic]

You can have a beautiful female character without it being fanservice. Isn't fanservice at least partly down to intent? Are all the dashing muscle bound male heroes fanservice for the female/gay fans?

Point being it's pretty universal in both realms, really. Maybe there's like, a 49/51 split or whatev'. But fanservice is fanservice and it's bloody everywhere.

Got to be honest I'm struggling to think of more than a few examples in western animation. I guess it could just be a lot less overt.

Well, cartoons in western animation are specifically marketed as a kid's thing, western animation aimed at adult audiences that I've seen can have a metric f-ton of fan-service (Heavy Metal, Drawn Together).

What should be comparable is stuff aimed at the same demographic in both cultures. live-action American shows have plenty of fan service. sitcoms like "Married With Children" where almost all the women are walking fan-service moments are probably the equivalent of harem comedy anime, and JUST as predictable. Sitcoms also have cookie-cutter jokes, situations and characters.

Jessica Simpson's outfits in Dukes Of Hazard. (I rest my case).

But of course you wouldn't point at a shitty sitcom, than claim 30 Rock or Arrested Development suck by association, because they're both live action comedy shows from America, right?

Don't get me wrong I know there is plenty of fanservice in Western media in general but was just commenting on Western animation.

As you mentioned Heavy Metal: I am still yet to see it as I wasn't aware it existed but do own the comic. Big fan of Bisley's work in general. Lots of sexualised characters there both male and female.

Got to be honest I'm struggling to think of more than a few examples in western animation. I guess it could just be a lot less overt.

Two reasons for this:

1) Cartoons are stigmatized as "for kids."
2) Kids are thought to somehow become "corrupted" or "lose innocence" if they're exposed to anything sexual.

Both those bullshit concepts result in western animation not having much visual fanservice. You'll still see plenty of sexual jokes and the like, though.

I agree that it's silly but I don't really miss the fanservice when watching toons.

Edit: sort of ninja'd.

[Reelya]

Actually, the Heavy Metal film came out quite a few years (1981) before Bisley broke into the comics business. But he was involved to some degree with a "sequel" called Heavy Metal 2000 which I haven't seen.