Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Flying Dice]

Hotlinking images in general tends to be poor manners. If it's good enough to be worth posting, it's good enough to quickly save and reupload to imgur. 

[Heron TSG]

Spoiler: My google-fu is strong. (click to show/hide)

[Reelya]

The only problem with that theory in the comic strip (which i have seen before btw), is that all the cartoons mentioned as contenders to anime, do in actuality, suck balls.

[kaijyuu]

Only season 4+ of Spongebob sucks. And FOP is a love it/hate it thing, from my understanding.

[Cthulhu]

That's just because you don't understand the subtle nuances of Amerimation like I do.

Also, I can think of very few animes I saw that didn't suck some serious scroat, so I'm not sure what the difference here is.

[Reelya]

Having a story vs not having a story. End of story. (literally).

What's the American equivalent to Kino's Journey, Haibane Renmei, Paranoia Agent or Mononoke?

It doesn't exist. Not even close.

[kaijyuu]

Are you non-ironically claiming Anime does better storytelling?

[Reelya]

I'm saying American cartoons barely even try to have a narrative that progresses from episode to episode. You can't be faulted for failing when you never tried

[Cthulhu]

I thought we were discussing quality, not consistent narrative.  Naruto has a consistent narrative.

[Reelya]

Naruto is mass-produced rubbish, the best ones are the 13 or 26 episode series which are written with a definite ending in mind. So, I wouldn't call Naruto's narrative particularly consistent on the scale of things.

[Cthulhu]

Sure, why not.

I think, however, that you're wrong with the number of cartoons thing.  Cartoons are for kids in America.  I think if you had a culture that was okay with cartoons geared for adults, and more cartoons, you'd see good and serious ones.  I think they'd be better than animo.

[Max White]

I think, however, that you're wrong with the number of cartoons thing.  Cartoons are for kids in America.  I think if you had a culture that was okay with cartoons geared for adults, and more cartoons, you'd see good and serious ones.  I think they'd be better than animo.

Do you mean to imply that Drawn Together was in any way good?

But seriously, Venture Bros was pretty awesome, Harvey birdman attorney at law was good, Family guy is just pityful.
Sort of a mixed bag, as you would expect with any cultural works.

[Flying Dice]

In short, a show doesn't have the possibility of being a decent story if it doesn't have a consistent narrative.

Not all shows with a consistent narrative have a good story, but all shows with a good story have a consistent narrative.


That's not to suggest that "good story" is the be-all and end-all of a good show, but it's what we're discussing at the moment. That aside, I tend to enjoy things based on how much they appeal to me, not because of their association with a certain style or certain tropes. For me, good story is a large draw; anime series by default are more likely to have a consistent narrative (and thus potentially a good story) than western animation. I still enjoy western animation, but for (somewhat) different reasons.

In short, a more apt comparison would be between anime and live-action series in the West; both are story- and character-driven. So, for example, a comparison between Cowboy Bebop and Firefly would be much more apt than one between the former and Spongebob, or between the latter and, say, one of the Touhou games. The 'animated' aspect of things is largely irrelevant, except in terms of breaking down things into tropes and certain stylistic choices which become available.


Re: Western "adult" animation: For the most part, it's as described: dirty humor. Some of it is good, some of it is crap (Family Guy). There's plenty of potential for more serious western animation, but it'd have to overcome the cultural bias against the same.

[Heron TSG]

I'm saying American cartoons barely even try to have a narrative that progresses from episode to episode. You can't be faulted for failing when you never tried

There are a lot of successful cartoons and comics that don't have a constant narrative. Goblins is a good comic, but so is XKCD. As for western animations with a primary story arc, Avatar (both The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra) are pretty good at it. A few of the Batman TV series have been pretty coherent. And then you have anime like "Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs", which is a villain-of-the-day type show.

Ninjapseudoedit: One could also compare Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs to Firefly. They're both space westerns and oh my god a huge robot sheriff!

[Reelya]

Cthulhu: "I think they'd be better than animo."

i'm not sure about that. Look at Macross Zero, seriously it's only a 5 episode direct to DVD series, so 2.5 hours. That cost the Japan creators about the same per 30 minute episode than the reported budget per-20 minute episode of Spongebob Squarepants (300-500K per episode) and about 40% of the budget per episode of Invader Zim ($1.2 million per episode).

And Macross Zero looks absolutely stunning for the money they spent, whilst those other shows look like something a kid could throw together in Adobe Flash.

Dollar for dollar, anime looks better.