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[Bohandas]

idea sounds cool. posting to watch.

[thunktone]

Since trees could grow to adjacent tiles through magic/shaping, elven 'masons' could be told to build in a similar manner to the dwarves, but they would have to connect to the main part of the tree at some point.

Layering? Again though elves could use magic for this it isn't the only way. A supple branch can be bent down and partially buried, with the bark scraped away on one side. It will then put down new roots and a new tree will grow that can be separated from the parent (but doesn't have to be). I don't think it works for all species but it could do for elves.

I think that to build a tree city in the game all the magic the elves really need is some way to make a tree grow faster. There could be a particular species of tree that they use, then they take a cutting with them when they go to found a new settlement. Or they could just go into the forest and perform some ritual to link their group to a particular tree. Perhaps the druid is an elf with a more direct symbiotic relationship with the tree.

[Draxis]

Maybe to build, you could designate parts of the tree to grow out into what, say a workshop branch or a living branch, and it would grow at a rate determined by how many different places it is growing at - it has a limited amount of resources that are distributed evenly.  The elves could "Tend Tree" or somthing to increase that number.

[nighzmarquls]

I don't know if tree acceleration is really 'elfy' it seems like their way would be really layed back and just 'wait' for trees to grow naturally.

It seems that since you only play one 'fort' at a time an elvish retreat could maybe compress time in order to get across their crazy immortal disinterest across. Maybe having 'decades' go by at the same rate that dwarvish years do.

Perhaps elves are only active during the 'growing' seasons and then spend long periods of time in a reverie?

Maybe they can just set things to grow and 'take a nap' or time skip ahead as they deem fit.

It would be a very nice mechanic that would make elves really distinct from dwarves and humans.

[stabbymcstabstab]

why isnt acceleration of trees elfy it expands the forest besides the first dorf "caravan" should see how long elves really live

[Montague]

I think trees will just have to be reworked to make elves a playable race. Even elven "city sprawl" sites might need to make big trees or whatever the hell elves live in.

I picture them as just living in tents and big hollowed-out logs, more then giant 'Avatar'-type trees.

I'm really not sure what direction Toady is going with elves, but giant tree-cities and the such seem awfully cliched and too "high-fantasy" for the game universe. I'd rather just see them live out in the open in tents and pavilion structures made up of all that damn cloth they seem to produce and they work individual trees for their branches and limbs to produce wood.

Giant hollowed-out trees sorta wrecks the realism factor the game has going for itself.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

The only problem with Elves just living around in tents is that it's not all that interesting. I suppose you could go for a whole "cloth city" thing with giant tent castles.
That has the problem of where the Elves get all the cloth from. They don't strike me as heavy farmers.

It will be a lot less interesting when Toady adds different human cultures. He already stated that there will be Mongol-esce humans which have the added benefit of moving around and being all horsemen.
I agree that it isn't all that realistic but considering that humans in real-life make vein bridges and that Elves don't age I can see it being streched.

As for some of the suggestions about time moving much faster in an Elven "fortress" game I can see that being interesting.
Of course the current Dwarf Fortress mechanics wouldn't work for it and even more would have to be abstracted.

Perhaps it should take a more sim tower managment approach focusing mainly on building the tree rather than the Elves themselves.
Having different gameplay mechanics for each race could really improve the game and allow for players to find their own niche races.
'Course the development time would greatly increase as well so it's more of a dream than anything else.

Edit: Having the elves have to grow their tree cities would also solve their overpopulation problems in world gen. Since the cities would take ages and hold only a few elves.
They'd be pretty hard to seige as well (discounting fire) so a small population would most likely be alive somewhere.

[thunktone]

...where the Elves get all the cloth from...

Well they're hippies and I think it's pretty clear what "rope reed" is. That cloth is just a by product from their "cigarette" industry.

[Glowcat]

warning: post is somewhat rambling due to exhaustion

Instead of making their entire game based around a giant tree (or a few giant trees) the elves could first focus on developing a thriving ecosystem that was within a sort of twisted fortress made from the forest or jungle itself. They would still warp wood to create their homes, as a sort of nasty gnarled hovel, and would live among the animals/plants they needed for resources or defense. Instead of having butchers, you'd have collectors who'd gather the unused remains of slain animals. The elf civilization's basic settlements would be called Groves (like the Sacred Groves of druids) and only after many years would they successfully grow a real tree city. They would still depend heavily on existing creatures but the addition of a sacred tree would bring upon them new challenges and rewards.

Since elves are frolicking plant-organism lover types, they would probably use these settlements to expand forests or jungles into places either normally inhospitable to plant growth or regions that have been taken over by civilized societies. Anything they grow will be orchard or otherwise tree-based, giving their farming a unique feel to it. Importing new tree saplings and tending to them while they're weak is an important part of setting up your food supply. In fact, I think that perhaps all elf "building" should first be done by planting trees, and then using Wood Warping to create the buildings you wanted. Your elves would either import new tree seed-types from outside or harvest them from mature trees you already have available.

Conflicts will occur as either human or dwarf logging parties attempted to butcher your forest for their furnaces and crude crafts. Elves would see it as their mission to reclaim lands lost to human settlements and erecting a Grove is the first sign of an elven challenge.

[RabidAnubis]

Perhaps, we could stick with the concept of making trees into their homes, and I was thinking they could take food from the Pholem of the tree and water from the xylem.  But that would take a big fortress to do.  And now since they have a reason to keep the trees alive, (For food) they would be restricted to only making a few trees there homes.  And when that human legion of woodcutters are coming along, it would be like pillaging your farm.  This would give the elves a reason to want to expand forests, take roots into underground caves, and stop tree cutters.

It's fun killing elves, but they should have a reason to kill me.

[Bohandas]

Perhaps, we could stick with the concept of making trees into their homes, and I was thinking they could take food from the Pholem of the tree and water from the xylem.  But that would take a big fortress to do.  And now since they have a reason to keep the trees alive, (For food) they would be restricted to only making a few trees there homes.  And when that human legion of woodcutters are coming along, it would be like pillaging your farm.  This would give the elves a reason to want to expand forests, take roots into underground caves, and stop tree cutters.

And they could bring tasty maple syrup as a trade good

[thunktone]

And they could bring tasty maple syrup as a trade good

Yes, and sycamore and birch syrup too. Which could all be made into wines.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

Glowcat's somewhat lengthy post got me an idea: Trees should become unstable if they grow more than x blocks away from the root system. It'd take a lot to get the minerals and water and such all the way up a tall tree, right?

So, the maximum size of a tree would depend on the health of the surrounding area. This limits fledgling cities to having only tiny trees, makes expansion directly based on how well you've defended the nearby area, and gives them a reason to dislike the dwarven diggers, who mess up the soil with mineshafts and toxic/radioactive materials like mercury and bauxite. While it was in the rock, it was well-contained. When dug out by some ooh-pretty-red-stone dwarf, it isn't... and stuff will seep into the ground.

If certain elven workshops have to be built in a tree, and if trees make for good defense, then we've got a good gameplay mechanism all set up here. Trees turn into elven fortresses!
Archer-elves could rain down pebbles and arrows from above, and the melee elves could maybe rappel down using vines. Bridges between trees could be set up and cut in a moment's notice, while the enemy isn't so skilled with the tree vines.

... Is anyone dreaming of having a fort with both elves and dwarves right now?.. I think I am.

[Ahra]

you mean elfs in the big trees, humans in an city and dwarves beneath?
sounds familiar... dunno from where

[Glowcat]

you mean elfs in the big trees, humans in an city and dwarves beneath?
sounds familiar... dunno from where

I don't think originality is a worthy complaint when there are dwarves and elves in the first place. The game is supposed to be High Fantasy.

New players will be expecting some familiarity. Then they'll see their elves start snacking on each others' dead corpses.