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Author Topic: The Weiner thread  (Read 11907 times)

Vector

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #105 on: June 11, 2011, 12:09:53 pm »

consider his loyalty to his wife more relevant and more important than his loyalty to his country and to his constituency.

The loyalty to his country, and to his constituency, includes the loyalty to his wife--and to the other women he's been messing with.

People don't seem to understand this simple concept.  People that politicians screw over in their private lives are people that they're screwing over in their political lives, too.  He has a responsibility to not be an asshole.  He failed.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #106 on: June 11, 2011, 12:21:26 pm »

The loyalty to his country, and to his constituency, includes the loyalty to his wife--and to the other women he's been messing with.

People don't seem to understand this simple concept.  People that politicians screw over in their private lives are people that they're screwing over in their political lives, too.  He has a responsibility to not be an asshole.  He failed.
...Actually, I don't think this is true.  A politician's job is to represent their constituents or draft laws.  What he does in his private life shouldn't matter as long as it doesn't affect this.  There's definitely a different angle on this case (unsolicited advances are possibly criminal, he lied directly to protect his position) but I'm not sure if a consensual extramarital affair by a politician should be between anyone but themselves, their spouse and whoever else is involved.

It could reflect poorly on their character or expose them as hypocritical, though, depending on the situation.
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Vector

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #107 on: June 11, 2011, 12:25:44 pm »

It could reflect poorly on their character or expose them as hypocritical, though, depending on the situation.

The fact remains is that his wife is one of the people whose rights/wellbeing/whatever he's supposed to be upholding.

Maybe I'm just too goddamned idealistic.
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Bohandas

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2011, 12:33:06 pm »

It could reflect poorly on their character or expose them as hypocritical, though, depending on the situation.

These are things I already assume automatically about a person anyway as soon as I hear that they are running for office.
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Bohandas

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2011, 12:34:25 pm »

It could reflect poorly on their character or expose them as hypocritical, though, depending on the situation.

The fact remains is that his wife is one of the people whose rights/wellbeing/whatever he's supposed to be upholding.

I will grant that she IS one of his constituents, but marital fidelity falls clearly outside the official duties of his office.
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Vector

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2011, 12:36:26 pm »

I will grant that she IS one of his constituents, but marital fidelity falls clearly outside the official duties of his office.

No, certainly--on a grand scale, he can be faithful to his constituents, in general, without being faithful to his wife.

I still kind of prefer the closed definition, though >_<
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2011, 12:37:43 pm »

The fact remains is that his wife is one of the people whose rights/wellbeing/whatever he's supposed to be upholding.

Maybe I'm just too goddamned idealistic.
Well, yeah.  And he probably won't be getting his wife's vote due to that, nor the vote of anyone who thinks it reflects badly on his ability to do his job.

But... well, if you disqualified from office anyone who has ever wronged anyone in their constituency, you're gonna get a very, very short list of people left over.  "Being nice to everyone" isn't a politician's job (although it's certainly a good idea for them to be if they want to keep it) - it's to represent their constituents, and they're still representing even their cheated on spouse even if they are caught in an affair (assuming it's consensual and so on).
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Bauglir

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2011, 01:03:35 pm »

Are we talking about a consensual affair or unsolicited junk pictures? The latter has issues other than fidelity to his wife that are problematic. The former is a morality problem that, yes, I think makes for a candidate I'm less likely to vote for, but to the exact same extent that I'd be less likely to hire somebody to be a sales clerk if I'd heard that he'd slept around on his wife. Information directly relevant to the job has to take precedence (in this case, "Is he competent?" and "Does he support policies that I do?" being the major ones), but if looking at that doesn't resolve the issue, then I could go to fidelity to make a final decision. But "loyalty" isn't actually some universal value that applies to all situations equally.

Then, there's also the issue where sometimes people will see that someone needs to be punished for something and decide that any punishment is valid as long as it gets the job done. I actually don't think that's going on here so much, but I think what happens is that people who do believe that automatically assume that anybody who opposes any particular punishment must therefore oppose any punishment. And people who argue with those sorts of people have been conditioned to think that anybody who supports a particular punishment must be of that mindset, and that therefore they're obligated to point out that punishments ought to be confined to the people directly involved, and that a person ought to receive the same punishment (no more harsh, no less harsh) regardless of social status. So if a politician cheats on his wife, he ought to have to deal with a nasty divorce and the financial and social problems that go with that, just like anyone else who cheats on his wife ought to.

So you essentially have people strawmanning, completely accidentally, because if they were having this argument with a random person on the street they would probably be addressing an actual argument. Maybe. I might be completely wrong on this.
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Bohandas

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2011, 01:16:34 pm »

Being a criminal doesn't affect his ability to execute his duties either, unless of course the crime is either Obstruction Of Justice or Malfeasance In Office. Which it isn't
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h3lblad3

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #114 on: June 11, 2011, 04:31:01 pm »

The fact remains is that his wife is one of the people whose rights/wellbeing/whatever he's supposed to be upholding.

Maybe I'm just too goddamned idealistic.
Well, yeah.  And he probably won't be getting his wife's vote due to that, nor the vote of anyone who thinks it reflects badly on his ability to do his job.
I just watched a supporter come up and shake his hand on the news.
Oh, also, his wife thinks that he should stay a congressman.  Isn't that kinda sorta like getting her vote?

Besides, if the News is A-OK with showing the picture, I can't see it being too obscene, really.
I've seen worse on Cartoon Network.
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freeformschooler

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2011, 04:32:34 pm »

Besides, if the News is A-OK with showing the picture, I can't see it being too obscene, really.

It... it is? I don't recall them doing that  :o
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h3lblad3

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #116 on: June 11, 2011, 04:33:18 pm »

They showed it on CNN.  Dude was still wearing his underwear.  You could see the bulge.
CNN was enraged.

I'm starting to think he's just a masterwork troll.
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Vector

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2011, 04:33:59 pm »

There's... also naked pics, or so I hear.
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h3lblad3

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2011, 04:35:05 pm »

Oh, well that makes it a different matter. :B
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Weiner thread
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2011, 04:37:19 pm »

As far as the nature of the pictures goes, last weekend on the MTV Awards, a live televised program aimed at 12-16 year olds, this happened, along with uncensored f-bombs.  Not a peep.

By the way, 56% of Weiner's constituents think he should stay in office, compared to about 33% who want him to resign.  Take as you will.
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