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[SmokedRWA]

So I have big plans for my current fort, only time will tell whether or not I actually stick with it long enough to see them realized. For now though I have a couple questions to ask while I'm waiting for my miner's to finish digging out the arena:

1) Will a captured Uninvited Guest (cyclops) fight captured invaders (orcs and goblins)? And is there a general 'best' method of recaging the victors of these pitched battles or will I have to try to lure them down a hallway filled with cage traps?

2) I'm going to be building a multi-level water cistern which will be used for various projects. On the bottom most z-level of the cistern I will have a floodgate which can be opened and a screw pump will pump the water through the corridor, which I believe should be a bit faster than just the natural flow of the water. Here is the general idea (also forgive me this is my first spoiler code or what its called):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

W###   
WXpP
W#*#

W= 7/7 water on that immediate z-level
X= floodgate
#=Walls
*=gear assembly that can be turned on and off
pP= screw pump that is set to pump from the west

My questions are, upon opening the floodgate, would the water flood into the screw pump into the "p" faster than the pump can pump out the input tile, and if so would the water flow past the "P" or would that still act as a barrier?

[ext0l]

1. yes. goblins will fight with anything thats not wildlife so megabeasts, semimegabeasts, FBs, and even HFS. Build an arena for easy recapture
2. the pump will block the flow of the water.

[Girlinhat]

A pump on a flat surface acts like a 1 tile wall.  It draws from the level bellow, not the level it's on.

For insane pumping speed, us...

Code: [Select]

   p
   P
 pP Pp
   P
   pEach pump faces inwards, pushing water into the center tile.  If this center tile has a hatch at the bottom, then opening the hatch pushes water down very fast, because a pump will actually allow water to push faster than it will naturally flow.  If you stack this several layers deep, then 4*n layers will produce a lot of pressure and push a lot of water.  That's important, because it means that a pump's speed is reduced by the speed that water flows.  It creates empty space faster than water will refill it.  If you can fill the area the pump is drawing from, then the pump will push water much much faster.  For example...

Code: [Select]

  p
  P
pP pP-->
  P
  pThis will push the water to the right, far faster than a single pump would.  Three pumps are feeding into the one pump, ensuring that the one pump has a constant source of water to draw from.  This can be useful if you only have 1 tile to use as an outlet, but need a lot of fluid to push through.

Generally, any method of bottlenecking water, and putting a lot of pressure on it, mechanically or with normal pressure, will allow a faster flow through a smaller area, but for sheer volume per frame, you'll do better with several pumps pushing water into a wide corridor.

[Funburns]

Darn, my post was ninja'd Still might be helpful.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

W###   
WXpP
W#*#

W= 7/7 water on that immediate z-level
X= floodgate
#=Walls
*=gear assembly that can be turned on and off
pP= screw pump that is set to pump from the west

The pump can't move any water in any direction unless all of the following conditions are true:

• The floodgate is open (of course).
• The floodgate is not built on a floor.
• The tile one Z level below the floodgate is:
  • mined out OR turned into a ramp/stair that allows the passage of water
  • full contains at least one unit of water to pump.

As Girlinhat said, pumps work very, very fast. I remember reading they can transfer 7/7 water once per step, though I don't have a citation for that. Note that since pumps can draw from squares with ramps in them, it's often a good idea to leave one there for access, since it doesn't slow anything down.

Also, I like the pP notation for pumps. It's very clear. The whole diagram almost popped into 3d when I saw it.

Edited for accuracy pedantry

[SmokedRWA]

Thanks for the swift responses!

Just to make things clear though, a pump cannot pump water unless that water is one z-level below the input?

I'll need to change up the design of my cistern some :\

[Montague]

I thought the problem with stacking pumps horizontal to try and get a sort of "Paris Gun" effect didn't work because the static source tile the first pump draws from can only refill as fast as it usually does, which is awfully slow.

It doesn't have a model for suction or anything. Water displaced simply fills in the depleting water tile as gravity dictates, rather then being sucked into the system.

[Girlinhat]

Water flows by two methods.  It spreads out over a flat surface normally.  When under pressure, it teleports a square of 7/7 water from the top of the pressure chamber to the nearest open square 1 level below the top.  This is why pressurized water will overflow a U-bend, and why water under pressure moves very fast when unleashed, although it's not actually "moving" much, it's teleporting.  With that in mind, water under pressure will supply a pump faster than normal, flat water.

A submerged pump stack is very fast, search for "mechanically erupting volcano".  The idea behind this glorious Dwarven atrocity is to make sure the top pump has fluid behind it at all times.  To do that, it's supplied by naturally flowing magma AND the pump below it.  In turn, that second pump is supplied by natural flow AND the pump below it, for about 20 levels or so.  Fluids travel much slower than a pump will push them, and the idea behind a submerged pump stack is to take the slow flow of water, multiply it by 20, and push it straight up.  It's drawing those 20 different natural flows and funneling them straight up to the top pump, which operates at full speed, and can flood a map within minutes.

[Saiko Kila]

The pump is so powerful, that single tile input is enough to create a permanent 3x3 wall of water (7/7), maybe even more. It is too powerful for my tastes sometimes, because too strong flow won't make a good, misty waterfall. It will make a damned water cannon, which will stun your dwarves (or enemies). It's impossible to overcome it with natural flow.

[Girlinhat]

Use diagonal passages when you need to null pressure.  Always null your pressure before a waterfall to prevent drowning fun.

[SmokedRWA]

I'm trying to decide on a drainage system as well for this entire system. My current project that requires water from this cistern is my sewer system that will allow for a well in every dwarf's room. With that said, if I needed to drain said sewers, my original intention was to simply pump water from the sewers back into the top of the cistern and thus completely fill the cistern back to its original levels. I realize though that there is no way for me to be able to pump every single unit of water back into the cistern and that instead there would be quite a bit of shallow water that would just evaporate.

Now I'm beginning to lean towards simply draining what water I can off the edge of the map through smoothed fortifications. Does water draining off the map through these fortifications drain any more slowly than say water being pumped into an aquifer? Also does the water for my sewer system need to be flowing to move and get rid of contaminants or is there no noticeable effect between standing and flowing water in regards to this?

Thanks again for the valuable insight.

[Oaktree]

1. yes. goblins will fight with anything thats not wildlife so megabeasts, semimegabeasts, FBs, and even HFS. Build an arena for easy recapture
2. the pump will block the flow of the water.

Interesting.  I un-caged some goblins, badgers, and an ettin in a sealed room and they didn't fight much at all.  To the point that I eventually had to cage trap a corridor and let them back out in order to reclaim the space.  After that they were disposed of in a different manner that worked out much more effectively...

Outside I've seen giants and dragons appear and almost immediately attack besieging goblins.  The goblins are 1-0-1 so far.

[Andir]

Use diagonal passages when you need to null pressure.  Always null your pressure before a waterfall to prevent drowning fun.

Actually, that's a good idea for the cistern as well.  If you plan on having water pumped into the cistern, you may not be aware of any residual pressure at the bottom drain.  Opening the floodgate may immediately fill the pump room.

I'd suggest (depending on the cistern size) making the lower level a pressure removal layer.  I haven't tried this myself, but the theory should work...  Someone can correct me if this will not work.

Code: [Select]

##########
#........#
#...##...#
#..#CC#..#
#.#CCCC#.#
#..#CC#..#
#...##...#
#........#
##########
C = Cistern bottom
# = Wall
. = Open
Then pump the water out of that pool one level up in whatever direction you want.

[SmokedRWA]

Submerged pumps and mechanisms still work properly, yes?

[Sphalerite]

Submerged pumps and mechanisms still work properly, yes?

Yep.  Unless they're submerged in magma and not made from magma-safe materials.

[Andir]

Submerged pumps and mechanisms still work properly, yes?

Yep.  Unless they're submerged in magma and not made from magma-safe materials.

Whenever I make a pump room, I make sure I can get in and make upgrades/changes so I guess it's personal preference.