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[Jacob/Lee]

So, after starting Nightmare mode I proceeded to burn a flag just to piss people off. I was killed by a Death Squad Officer. Apparently C+ everything makes The Man blind, I was prostituting and selling brownies for a year and was never even approached by an officer. I did enjoy stockpiling AK-47 assault rifles and crazy amounts of ammo, though.

Anyway, on to the point. C+ America is pretty outlandish. Violent criminals are freely released, flag burning and abortions are murder, child labor is enforced, firefighters storm buildings, you can get shot and killed on the spot for loitering, women are second-class, animals are property etc. etc.

Really, all those points stand against everything I believe in politically, they are absolutely insane and I hope that real America never reaches that point. If it does, I'm going to Canada. It hurts my soul to think anybody could support any of that, it's so backwards.

But anyway, this topic was made because A) I am bored and B) to discuss the C+ laws and issues.

EDIT: I also just got killed for stealing a taxi. Fun stuff.

[Angel Of Death]

It hurts my soul to think anybody could support any of that, it's so backwards.

Hopefully, only a small amount of people (maybe a thousand) support those laws...

[Kay12]

Yeah, C+ is something like an Orwellian dystopia with a fairly large dose of, as it's even said somewhere, "a backwoods yet corporate nightmare". I personally think those laws would suck in real life as well. They say that utopia justifies the means, but this isn't an utopia except for very few.

[Jacob/Lee]

Fireproof housing would be pretty cool... But I still like my books, thank you.

[mainiac]

Really, all those points stand against everything I believe in politically, they are absolutely insane and I hope that real America never reaches that point. If it does, I'm going to Canada. It hurts my soul to think anybody could support any of that, it's so backwards.

Pah, a real Liberal would never move to Canada.  Stay and fight!

[Servant Corps]

Yeah, C+ is something like an Orwellian dystopia with a fairly large dose of, as it's even said somewhere, "a backwoods yet corporate nightmare". I personally think those laws would suck in real life as well. They say that utopia justifies the means, but this isn't an utopia except for very few.

Again, LCS showcase the view of the LCS. So obviously in such a game, the C+ utopia is horrible. In a future CCS game, then the C+ world would be great and happy and all-sunshine like the LCS L+ world. For example, in the CCS C+ world, free speech is protected, while CCS L+ world burns down books because they are politically incorrect.

[Kay12]

Yeah, that's also one thing to consider. I once posted a few lawtexts from the Conservative viewpoint. L+ nuclear power laws made electricity so expensive that most people would have to do without, L+ gun control made the military wield sticks (at L they could at least be pointed!) and L+ animal rights forced people to leave their homes as animals are entitled to apartments as well.

Basically, the laws in LCS could quite easily be reversed to the Conservative viewpoint. The only main difference is that the choice of issues themselves is a bit biased towards Liberalism - for example, it's easy to figure out an Utopia without Death Penalty, but harder to imagine how the lack of Death Penalty could be abused. It has to be stretched further, to make prison sentences longer than 6 months be considered so damaging to health so they'd equal Death Penalty and should be banned as well. In any case, the laws follow a quite simple pattern - C+ goes from huge negligence (gun control, nuclear power) to nationalistic/religious fervor (flag) and plain ol' evil laws to ensure profit and power (free speech, animal research, corporate etc). C is usually quite mainstream negative, not exactly a dystopia anymore (mostly because it already resembles the real world in many ways, somewhat alarming...). Almost all moderate law descriptions are in the format "not bad, BUT...", Liberal laws have the feeling of progress and Elite Liberal laws range from actually sensible (nuclear power banned, high wages for workers, firearms regulated) to silly yet utopistic (animal rights woo!). This atmosphere wouldn't be hard to reverse, especially since gross negligence is already the symbol of Arch Conservatism in LCS and, some argue, Liberals in real life.

[Angel Of Death]

Yeah, that's also one thing to consider. I once posted a few lawtexts from the Conservative viewpoint. L+ nuclear power laws made electricity so expensive that most people would have to do without, L+ gun control made the military wield sticks (at L they could at least be pointed!) and L+ animal rights forced people to leave their homes as animals are entitled to apartments as well.

Err... Raising the price of something to an obsene amount and forcing people out of their homes isn't really Liberal...

[breadbocks]

Yeah, that's also one thing to consider. I once posted a few lawtexts from the Conservative viewpoint. L+ nuclear power laws made electricity so expensive that most people would have to do without, L+ gun control made the military wield sticks (at L they could at least be pointed!) and L+ animal rights forced people to leave their homes as animals are entitled to apartments as well.

Err... Raising the price of something to an obsene amount and forcing people out of their homes isn't really Liberal...

And the death sentence for standing around in the wrong place isn't really Conservative.

[Kay12]

Yeah, that's also one thing to consider. I once posted a few lawtexts from the Conservative viewpoint. L+ nuclear power laws made electricity so expensive that most people would have to do without, L+ gun control made the military wield sticks (at L they could at least be pointed!) and L+ animal rights forced people to leave their homes as animals are entitled to apartments as well.

Err... Raising the price of something to an obsene amount and forcing people out of their homes isn't really Liberal...

Definitely not from the Elite Liberal point of view. From their point of view, it's necessary to redistribute housing to accommodate everyone, including the dogs who now have the same basic rights as humans. From their point of view, lack of energy is preferable to having to use nuclear power that is dangerous and leaves toxic waste to be dealt with. From their point of view, firearms are too dangerous to be given to practically anyone (although the L+ firearms law in game is still quite sensible). It all depends on point of view really. LCS is told from the Elite Liberal viewpoint, so the negative, tainted nature of the Conservatism and the pure good nature of Elite Liberalism are emphasised. Furthermore, like Jon said a few days ago in one of these threads, that conscription, an idea that is likely to be opposed by almost everyone except under dire circumstances, would be Conservative if you'd ask a Liberal and Liberal is you'd ask a Conservative.

[jasonred79]

animals are property
Really, all those points stand against everything I believe in politically, they are absolutely insane and I hope that real America never reaches that point.

Hold on... animals ARE considered property, or semi property, in many parts of the world. (pets are treated a rather differently from livestock though)

Is this against your political beliefs? In what way do you differ?

Interesting discussion!

[Jonathan S. Fox]

The difference between pets and humans is just intelligence, communication, role in society. Ethically, they're no different from children. They must be cared for by a parent or guardian. They'll never vote, be independent, pay taxes, or anything like that. For the few that work, their guardian is the one who signs the contract and collects the money. They are adorable, many people love them, they form loving friendships and family bonds. The amount of respect they receive varies from person to person. And ultimately, despite their status as second-class citizens, it is still a crime for them to be hurt, killed, sexually abused, psychologically terrorized, or otherwise mistreated, even by those who supposedly "own" them, and it is the ethical responsibility of those who do have political representation to consider their interests and ensure the world is a safe place for them to live comfortable and happy lives.

The word "humanitarian" is unfortunate.

[jasonred79]

As I said, those are pets. What about Livestock and animals for the slaughterhouse. Or animals in the wild. There's next to no protection for those. Speaking of which, does that mean LCS America is Vegan?

[Leafsnail]

As I said, those are pets. What about Livestock and animals for the slaughterhouse. Or animals in the wild. There's next to no protection for those.

...There are in some places - slaughterhouses and the like have to meet ethical standards generally, and hunting tends to be limited.

[Kay12]

Livestock are regulated, and hunted animals have lived a free life. From Mother Nature's point of view, getting killed is a natural part of many animals' lives.