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[counting]

What's interesting to me is that the entire lecture is an oblique reference to zen and mindfulness, but of course those things are silly and have no place in a serious corporate culture. Let's slap a different name on it and the spirituality bias goes away.

I don't know if you've watched till the end but the guy's position on that topic is that everyone has the ability to utilize skills like this and the fact that they're tied to religion is not a good thing, as they don't need to be.

Isn't that exactly what he is doing : building a body of knowledge system (what ever process evolved - believes and doctrines), and being enthusiastic about it, trying to introduce to other people (convert). And tell others can also understand it (philosophy), thus able to think better and efficient (alternate goals). All he needs is a group of followers to write it down and some time for it to be generally accepted. The functional aspects are all there. But I got his point about separated with other religions or practices. Since his method doesn't require many of those components and just making others confusing about his core philosophy. (Isn't this also a form of religious property? Separate with others?)

[Darkmere]

What's interesting to me is that the entire lecture is an oblique reference to zen and mindfulness, but of course those things are silly and have no place in a serious corporate culture. Let's slap a different name on it and the spirituality bias goes away.

I don't know if you've watched till the end but the guy's position on that topic is that everyone has the ability to utilize skills like this and the fact that they're tied to religion is not a good thing, as they don't need to be.

Right, but that discussion only took place after someone directly asked him about it. In parlance of the video, it proved a lack of out-group fear response in a situation that might have easily provoked one.

[Jackrabbit]

What's interesting to me is that the entire lecture is an oblique reference to zen and mindfulness, but of course those things are silly and have no place in a serious corporate culture. Let's slap a different name on it and the spirituality bias goes away.

I don't know if you've watched till the end but the guy's position on that topic is that everyone has the ability to utilize skills like this and the fact that they're tied to religion is not a good thing, as they don't need to be.

Isn't that exactly what he is doing : building a body of knowledge system (what ever process evolved - believes and doctrines), and being enthusiastic about it, trying to introduce to other people (convert). And tell others can also understand it (philosophy), thus able to think better and efficient (alternate goals). All he needs is a group of followers to write it down and some time for it to be generally accepted. The functional aspects are all there. But I got his point about separated with other religions or practices. Since his method doesn't require many of those components and just making others confusing about his core philosophy. (Isn't this also a form of religious property? Separate with others?)

You know, that's an interesting point, but since he isn't trying to alter the belief system of others (you can use these skills and still believe God exists, you can use these skills and still be a Hindu, ect.) I don't really think this falls under the vein of religion, especially since he's not trying to make you have faith in anything, he's trying to give you something tangible that gets results. Heck, even Buddhism, which as you said already uses a lot of this, involves faith to some degree. I don't think this counts as a religion, as your definition is too broad.

[GlyphGryph]

Counting, its not an apt comparison and you know it. While this sort of thing COULD be turned into religion, it isn't and doesn't need to be. And frankly, talking about it in a way that indicates understanding of "why" in addition to "what" is probably more effective at convincing his audience then Zen could ever be. So why wouldn't he approach the situation with the explanation that has the best chance of success?

None of this is a secret, even discounting Zen most of the principles he brings up have been independently discovered dozens of times... so the real question is, why WOULD he bring Zen up? Other than having happened upon the same things, how is it relevant? How is beneficial to his speech?

[darkrider2]

I think we have enough religious discussions on this board already without the need for a new one.

Also note that he has this backed up by numerous tests and scientists.

Religion conversions involve telling someone there is a problem in their life/spiritual life, and that the only way to fix it is to do these certain things and ascribe to being part of a certain group. While he did say there are ways to improve the way we think, he didn't propagate any group or subculture as thinking this way and therefor having been 'fixed'.

The other form of conversion is by force (Spanish inquisition, holocaust, etc...) but that's not really related.

I seriously doubt he is attempting to convert us to some relabeled form of Buddhism or other zen related religions. The parallels being drawn here between the video and religious propagation are bordering on the level of conspiracy.


okay... about the video.

I really liked it. The rational is overrated really got me, I'm the type that thinks anything can be thought out and solved with proper logic. But what he was saying can definitely explain how I'm able to almost wipe my conscious during math class and breeze through a test (with a good grade too).

[Jackrabbit]

Yeah, one of the ways that that hit home with me is how when I'm writing I hardly think at all, and yet I'm a million times more elegant and verbose than when I'm talking and thinking very hard about what I'm going to say. It's a huge benefit to know why.

[counting]

And we got 3 believers.

Promoting rational thinking is just a thinking, is it still rational, or just speeches? If you though he is rational, than you ARE follow his trend of thoughts than the trend of thoughts for yourself. It can be beneficial, as I know I done that almost every day. And most of you probably already do. And by collecting a group of these already known facts. Are they any better as a group of knowledge package which may be proven wrong in future science of the brain? One has no answer. One has only question. One is not about religion. One is trying to make a point by pointing something seems contradiction at first glance.

And I always wonder and has the weird feeling he will pop up the next phrase said, "There is a Zenist view just like what I ...". It looks/sounds too familiar. But it's right not to mention it to a crowd who don't get what Zen is at the first place, and not helping to promote understanding, since audience have nothing to compare to. But isn't it the ethical of science community to clearly point out the reference, so others can followed it clearly which is your contribution, which is not? One still have no answer, and one has no point to make now. One has to go to analyses one's low level thought processes in the working memory using one's limited brain resources.

[Jackrabbit]

I'm afraid I don't follow, largely because your sentence structure is all over the place. Sorry. I... think I have a basic idea of what you're saying? I maintain that him explaining concepts that can be utilized in real life for tangible benefit differs quite significantly from a religion.

[Darkmere]

I'd just like to point out that he's (video) propagating a philosophy backed by research. Philosophy is not a religion. Counting is approaching this from an Eastern perspective which is completely different from religious bickering that's fostered in Western theology.

There's a huge difference in philosophical dissemination and religious conversion.

That said, I'd LOVE to use the contents of this video to stab holes in the religious conversion process, but I won't. That doesn't belong here and we have plenty of bickering elsewhere already.

FAKE EDIT: Jeez, post ninjas...

[Knight of Fools]

This was really interesting.  (Ignoring all the religious side discussions - This guy explained it in a manner that made some sense to me in a way that helped me know how to apply it and understand it, which is much more than I can say about the few Zen techniques I've heard of.)

I also wish he'd provided more examples.  He talked about Expressing, Suppressing, and "Cognitive Change" - Rethinking a situation.  He explained you could turn a traffic jam into a positive thing by talking on the phone, or doing yoga, but those aren't problems most of us run into.  Most of us run into people insulting us, making us do things that we don't want to do, or generally direct interactions with people in general.

Watching it again, though, he says you simply "define" or "label" the emotion.  So, if someone is insulting you and you feel uncomfortable, you simply identify that the person is attacking your "Status", "Fairness", and maybe even your "Certainty" social positions, and it's making you angry, and you suddenly understand the situation enough to be able to overcome the emotion that's taking rise in you.

And apparently being too happy could be a bad thing, too.

Very interesting.  I'll have to test some of this stuff out, and watch the video again some time later in the week after trying out some of the stuff he brought up.  Like the blogger stated, it could be life changing.

[counting]

This was really interesting.  (Ignoring all the religious side discussions - This guy explained it in a manner that made some sense to me in a way that helped me know how to apply it and understand it, which is much more than I can say about the few Zen techniques I've heard of.)

It's what I mean its not helping promote his idea, since as audiences you have too few to identified with to make long speech short. (I won't like to see he makes this speech using Chinese, and realized some phrases are just what he meant in ten minutes but just 4 words in Chinese. Also, how the audience replaced with people from the Far-East will react, not necessary from China, India as well)

I also wish he'd provided more examples.  He talked about Expressing, Suppressing, and "Cognitive Change" - Rethinking a situation.  He explained you could turn a traffic jam into a positive thing by talking on the phone, or doing yoga, but those aren't problems most of us run into.  Most of us run into people insulting us, making us do things that we don't want to do, or generally direct interactions with people in general.

This is a good example, Taoist has a phrase for it 名可名非常名, the label is never be the same as the thing itself. And positive/negative or not is just an illusion. 色即是空, Also it exits in Buddhism, and you should find there is another half of that, If something do make you impatient, they do have function in it, and by invoking it, it makes you YOU. if you stripped all that, you will be like machine. 空即是色. These invisible things make your personality, it's your decision makes them real. Sounds familiar like he said? And so does the Buddha says.

Watching it again, though, he says you simply "define" or "label" the emotion.  So, if someone is insulting you and you feel uncomfortable, you simply identify that the person is attacking your "Status", "Fairness", and maybe even your "Certainty" social positions, and it's making you angry, and you suddenly understand the situation enough to be able to overcome the emotion that's taking rise in you.

And apparently being too happy could be a bad thing, too.

And exactly a technique used by of Zen. 以逆為順. 以順為逆. Or in Buddhism, a method called 不靜觀 (hard to translate, like thinking the unthinkable). They are all about making label about unpleasant thing into acceptable by imagining it differently, and through that to find peace. And possibly if you believe the Buddhism alternate goal, to enlightenment.

Very interesting.  I'll have to test some of this stuff out, and watch the video again some time later in the week after trying out some of the stuff he brought up.  Like the blogger stated, it could be life changing.

I am sure it will change. Because you are a believer now  . (Just kidding  , but I wish you luck)

[Miggy]

I've only watched half of the video so far, I've just run to the end of how to handle emotions.

I'm a firm labeler, and I label every emotion I feel, all the time. I've always known I do it, but I've not known why it works. The way I've thought of it is that I don't merely suppress my emotions, but I identify them and through that I can work with them. Which is exactly what it seems labeling is about.

Which makes me feel nice because it means I'm doing the right thing and I came up with it all on my own.

[Frajic]

I'm sorry, but I'm outright going to reject the claims about this being philosophy, religion or anything like that. The man in the video explained how your brain worked, and how you may control it better. Pure science. It just so happens that the techniques found in this video have already been found, by Zen for example.
I'd elaborate more, but I can't think of anything... I'll just leave it at that.

[counting]

I'm sorry, but I'm outright going to reject the claims about this being philosophy, religion or anything like that. The man in the video explained how your brain worked, and how you may control it better. Pure science. It just so happens that the techniques found in this video have already been found, by Zen for example.
I'd elaborate more, but I can't think of anything... I'll just leave it at that.

Humor can help drop the aggressiveness, we believe the emotional negative is bad, right? let's see a story

---

One day a smart donkey and his master were traveling and stopped on a crossroad.

The master had traveled through here many times, told the donkey they should go the right path, and pulled the harness.

The smart donkey resisted the pulling, and break free. Then when he were happily walking on others' paths, he felt under a cliff.

The master saw it and shake his head. He yelled to the donkey :

"You win."

The donkey went to heaven, and God asked him why he didn't want to follower the master, the donkey said : "I want to try every possible way, the master only show me one!".

God sighed and gave the donkey a second chance.

A smart donkey and a master came across the cross-path again.

The master told the donkey he had traveled here before and tried the paths, pointed the direction. The donkey followed the master without the harness, and feeling happy, the donkey told himself :

"Hey, I win!"

The master heard and smiled.

---

master Urist McDonkey

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I add some clues in it, and reduce the misleading as much as possible, hope it will be easier.

[Frajic]

I'm sorry, but I'm outright going to reject the claims about this being philosophy, religion or anything like that. The man in the video explained how your brain worked, and how you may control it better. Pure science. It just so happens that the techniques found in this video have already been found, by Zen for example.
I'd elaborate more, but I can't think of anything... I'll just leave it at that.

Humor can help drop the aggressiveness, we believe the emotional negative is bad, right? let's see a story

-snip-

I... am not completely sure what you mean by this story. The meaning of the story doesn't completely rhyme with the situation.

If you just wanted to show off a fun story, okay then.