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Author Topic: Egg question  (Read 5737 times)

Cocoprimate

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Egg question
« on: June 04, 2011, 07:07:26 pm »

So I wanted to breed dragons. I added the child tag, and copied the egg part of the chicken's raws and put it in the dragon's raws, and then changed the egg size to 120.

After several years of waiting, I managed to capture two dragons (with names, so still aggressive after taming) and tame them.

The female showed up first, so I put her in an isolated, locked room with a nest box, where she promptly laid two eggs, and has been sitting on them since. Then the male showed up after maybe 2-3 years (the she-dragon still sitting on the eggs). I captured it, tamed it, and put it in a locked room.

So now the eggs are fertilized right? There is a female dragon sitting on eggs, with a male present in the map. Still, they are taking too long to hatch. My question is, if I reduce the size of the eggs in the raws, to, say, something ridiculous like 10. Will it cause the eggs to instahatch?

It's been like 3 years I think. Could something be wrong?
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The story of Aban Diamondtowns the Charms of Society, dwarf legend, and his descent into the depths. (SPOILER)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79229.0

Kweri

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 07:54:14 pm »

I'd try dumping the current eggs and having her lay new ones.

I've not done any experiments to back this up, but I feel like eggs shouldn't hatch unless there's a male on the map -at the time of laying-. Not sure if the game actually works that way, but worth trying.
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Seriyu

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 08:18:25 pm »

Needs to be a male on the map, yes, not entirely sure when. If it's been three years it's definatly been too long.

SirAaronIII

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 09:48:59 pm »

I think the male has to be on the map at the time she lays the eggs.
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Greiger

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 09:53:28 pm »

From my own "not quite scientific method but kinda close" testing, yea, the male/husband needs to be present at the time of the laying.

Dump (or cook) the origonal egg(s) and try again.

EDIT: And good luck with that.  That's probably gunna take some planning to empty that nest box that has a 300 ton dragon sitting on it.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 09:57:04 pm by Greiger »
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Quietust

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 10:37:04 pm »

After several years of waiting, I managed to capture two dragons (with names, so still aggressive after taming) and tame them.
All dragons are named since they are Megabeasts, but they will only be hostile toward you if they happen to be enemies of your civilization - if they haven't killed any of your dwarves and they're still hostile, then it just means that they attacked your Mountainhomes during worldgen.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 03:34:53 pm »

If possible, catch and tame the dragons. Free, infinite dragons and eggs! Woo-hoo!

Unless the dragons are already your enemies Then...it's more !!fun!! and slightly less fun.
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Cocoprimate

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 04:32:01 pm »

Yeah I already have a breeding pair of aggressive dragons.

Quote
EDIT: And good luck with that.  That's probably gunna take some planning to empty that nest box that has a 300 ton dragon sitting on it.

I devised a system through which I can take the eggs away from the mother with only one dwarven casualty as payment. I dug an additional corridor leading away from the nestbox, with a door. I then send a worthless peasant through the corridor, making the dragon chase it, once they both are away from the door, I lock it, effectively trapping both the dragon and the dwarf in the corridor. The dragon then proceeds to roast the dwarf, leaving only stains of fat in the floor. But the egg room is left free, so I can send my dwarves to get the eggs, while they hear the muffled screams of agony of the other dwarf in the corridor.

So I've taken the two eggs that were laid before the male had arrived. The dragon has already laid another egg. This time the male was present on the map. She has been sitting on it for about 6 months now, so it shouldn't be long. If it doesn't hatch, I'll show you my raws to see if you guys can see any problems.
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The story of Aban Diamondtowns the Charms of Society, dwarf legend, and his descent into the depths. (SPOILER)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79229.0

Cocoprimate

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2011, 07:57:02 pm »

Ok, after another year and a half of having her sit on the eggs with no result, I hereby present my dragon raws so that someone who knows about this can spot whats wrong with my sterile dragons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My other breeding projects have had success. I have produced over 50 monitor lizards (for my monitor lizard pit), 62 asps (for my snake pit), 9 Giant leopards (war pets for the axe lords), and some regular leopards for the kitchen. But the whole point of this fortress is to make dragons! To burn elves and to eat +dragon roast+ every day, at every meal. Please, help!

A small note, the two dragon eggs I have so far harvested don't appear in the kitchen menu so I can select whether to cook or not. They did get put in the same egg pot as the rest of the eggs. Not sure if it has anything to do with anything.

Thanks in advance!
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The story of Aban Diamondtowns the Charms of Society, dwarf legend, and his descent into the depths. (SPOILER)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79229.0

Eldrick Tobin

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 11:36:00 am »

At first I was gonna make a comment on egg size but you handled that.

Then I looked at the Body_SIZE:0 numbers. I know it's !!SCIENCE!! and thus prime for testing... (which as I've been creating a multicasted evil race and that needs testing, I have a lack of brain cells for testing this for you)

You could try copying the body size and egg size from something you know works just to make sure that Momma Dragon is not still somehow firing blanks... or that it won't be 9000 years before the egg enlarges enough to hatch something of the appropriate body size:0.


However i do NOT recommend using Necro910's Turrets... 50-80 dragons popping out of the nest box is a bit... yikes.
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thatkid

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 12:09:06 pm »

I thought I read somewhere that creatures with the [MEGABEAST] tag can't breed?
Maybe I'm mistaken (in any case, I hope I am).
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Organum

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 12:34:49 pm »

I've heard the same. Try removing it? It's in the creature raws so it should work without needing to be a completely new world.
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Cocoprimate

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 09:24:46 pm »

Well, after several days of trying, about 5 in-game years, and eight dead dwarfs burned up in dragonfire, I have achieved success!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have successfully hatched five newborn dragons, three females and two males, which you can see in the above picture happily lounging in their luxurious hatchery, the size of a great hall, fully engraved, and equipped with adamantine nest boxes and statues. They are too young to breed yet - they should reach sexual maturity in 4 years, or so I've modded them.

I think breeding dragons in DF was harder than breeding pandas in captivity is in RL. Much !!SCIENCE!! was obtained through this foray into dragon husbandry, from which I can affirm with full certainty the following facts:

-In order for a megabeast to breed, you have to remove the megabeast tag, as pointed out by a fellow user above, and add the child tag, of course.

-Not every batch of eggs laid with a male present gets fertilized. What is more, I think fertilization is sorted out the moment the eggs are laid, so they won't be fertilized two years in if they weren't at the beginning. The trick lies in trying to find out how long should it be for an egg of a given size to hatch, and once that time is exceeded, remove the unfertilized egg, have the female lay new ones, and hope those get fertilized.

-I can't guess the odds a given egg has of being fertilized, but I would say it's around 30% or less, if you only have a single male and female of breeding age.  My dragon female had at least seven failed batches to only 2 successful ones.

-Having more than one male of the same species in the map increases chances of fertilization. I was able to prove this with my separate monitor lizard and asp breeding projects. With the monitor lizards (had three males at the beginning), almost every batch of eggs was fertilized (resulting in a massive lizardsplosion eventually, got like 1000 meat out of it), and with the asps (had four males) every batch was fertilized. My eagles, however, with only one male, have yet to lay a successful batch, after three tries.

-Modded in egg-layers don't produce edible eggs. The eggs will get put in the food stockpile but will never be selected for cooking. I don't know how to circumvent this.

-Forbidding the eggs has no effect on their hatchiness. It is useful to avoid dwarves hauling off the eggs to the food stockpile.

-If the egg size is more than 200, it's not worth the wait as it is not easily manageable, unless the creature lays an inordinate amount of eggs per batch.

-Aggressive tame creatures, such as a dragon you capture, are immune to traps, sadly.

-Pet dragons are the best.

So, to recap, in order to have pet dragons:

-You have to mod them to be able to breed (removing the megabeast tag, adding child tag, appropriate egg part), after capturing a breeding pair (took 5-6 years of waiting).

-They will both be aggressive after taming, killing and roasting your dwarves if given the slightest chance.

-I put the female in a pre-made room with nest boxes and an additional, long corridor with a door at the end, connected to the fortress. Once the eggs are laid, you wait and pray for them to hatch.

-If they don't hatch in a given amount of time (depends on what size you give the eggs), you put a useless dwarf in the end of the corridor as bait, to aggro the dragon into attacking him. Once the dragon is chasing after the dwarf, you let another dwarf go after the eggs in the nestbox. After he grabs it, you lock the door. The dragon, her bloodlust satisifed, happily goes into the nest room and lies more eggs.

-Repeat until successful.

-Sometimes the dragon would finish too quickly with the bait dwarf, and go after the dwarf stealing the eggs, resulting in another death, or in serious injury. Both the bait dwarves (sure deaths) and the dead egg thiefs, are given adamantine sarcophagi, to honor their sacrifice so the fortress could have the coolest pets ever.

-Dragons hatched from aggressive mothers won't be aggressive. They are as docile as kittens, and I have yet to catch them spewing bouts of fire at random. They are well behaved and won't roast stuff just for kicks.

-After you get a newborn female, it is advisable that you dispose of the original mother so you don't have to deal with her bitchiness anymore. Dragon meat is tasty. Or you could just lock her in the depths and forget about her, but it's sad to have a dragon and let it go to waste.

Thoughts?
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The story of Aban Diamondtowns the Charms of Society, dwarf legend, and his descent into the depths. (SPOILER)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79229.0

Monk321654

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2011, 12:06:01 am »

Impressive, that's my thoughts.
Bravo, Dwarf.
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Greiger

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Re: Egg question
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 04:40:46 pm »

Congrats, I do believe your ‼SCIENCE‼ has expanded known information on egg layers, and possibly animal breeding in general.  It seems civ egg laying races use a different method to determine fertilization than animals since with civ races it seems nearly 100% when done correctly from my own testing.  But I only studied with intelligent fortress race eggers, and that would hardly be the only thing different about it so it doesn't surprise me.

It also gives more indication on how animal breeding works.  They likely use bits of the same code, and egg fertilization having a success rate could very well explain some other animals' unexplained infertility.

You deserve your babby dragons.  Have fun.
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