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Author Topic: Universe Generator  (Read 5082 times)

Iden

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 12:21:06 am »

The world generator only creates a single planet that can be edited in many ways. Making it a universe generator would add things like multiple moons and suns, constellations, and other planets solar system. I think this will be very important for things like engravings and statues, since the sun, moon, etc. had a strong influence on ancient spirituality.

I agree. Love the idea! Great stuff. Though I feel I should correct some misinformation here and add my two cents.
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A solar system would have to include at least one star and one planet.

A solar system, by definition, is a star with orbitting bodies -- be they asteroids, gas clouds/rings, planets, planetoids, etc. Star systems should not be restricted to just anything simply having planets. However, for game purposes, perhaps anything without a planet would simply be too insignificant to truly note as more than a star.
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The sun star could be a class O (extremely large, white, least likely to occur), B (very large, blue-white, very unlikely to occur), A (large, unlikely to occur, blue), F (likely to occur, yellow, average size) G, (Most likely to occur, average size, yellow), K (likely to occur, orange, smaller than average), and M (unlikely to occur, red, very small). The effects of the type of sun-star could be the temperature of the planet.

OBAFGKM That's spot on, however you've mixed up a few basic details here.

O class stars are on the bluer end of the spectrum, and these are not by definition large -- they are massive. These two things are not the same. Size and mass are unrelated things. You can have both an O-class and an M-class star that are immensely large, but physical size has nothing to do with color or classification. M class stars are redder, and stars on this end of the spectrum have very little mass.

O stars are also not white, they are blue. Many (or most) of these even emit light in the ultraviolet spectrum. As you move to the redder end of the spectrum, you shift to blue-white, to yellow, to orange, then to red (and infrared). Our own star, appearing yellow, is a G2.

The bluer stars are more massive, and more luminous (give off more energy). They are also extremely rare.
The redder stars tend to not be very massive, and are typically not very luminous. Some M-class stars are even so red that they only emit light that is in the infrared, and are not visible to the naked eye. Red stars are also extremely common. The vast majority of stars in the universe are M-class stars. G-type stars are not the most likely to occur.

The only way I currently find for this being relevant to the game world itself is information about the particular planet in Legends, and perhaps in engravings and statues. The amount of energy/radiation being put out by a star would dictate the optimal distance for a planet to be from the star in order for the planet to be inhabitable and relatively Earth-like. The bluer the star, the more energy being put out, and the further away the planet would need to be in order to find this optimal place. The redder the star, the less energy put out, the closer the planet needs to be in order to find that optimal place. Stars closer than the optimal range would be hotter, most likely desert planets or blistering rocky wastelands. Stars outside the optimal range would be colder, perhaps ice/snow planets (if water is available) or freezing [temperature-wise] rocky wastelands.
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Possible moons depend on how large the home planet is, (larger world = more moons), moons would effect ocean currents of the planet, although I’m not sure how this would be incorporated into the game.

I'm not really sure how tidal forces would have an affect on the game world. As it is, the ocean is more-or-less irrelevant, especially to dwarfs who prefer to dwell underground rather than on/near the sea. Getting into multiple bodies affecting tidal forces is perhaps a little to complicated for Toady to really be getting into if tidal forces are irrelevant to be taken into consideration, and this might just be easiest if left out.

However, I believe that the size of the planet should not be specifically indicative of the number of moons a planet would have. What if you always wanted a large planet, and you'd always get a large number of moons? That gets stale after a while. You should be able to have a random number of moons.

A number of things contribute to the formation of moons. Generally natural satellites, if I recall correctly, would need to be formed under high temperatures, either requiring having been formed when the planets were formed, or having formed from an outside event such as a planetary collision that could generate that much heat on a large body, enough for it to form into a spherical shape. This could lead to a number of satellites, especially if collisions are frequent (which would also be more likely to occur earlier in the history of the system, as well, as over time things would reach a balance of sorts in the system).

Another factor could be size, as larger planets do have greater gravitational forces -- (do not mix this up with stars, as a stars size and mass are totally unrelated, whereas for planets, mass and size do tend to be related) -- and may attract other smaller bodies within their local area towards them. However, do not be mistaken, as just because a body is pulled towards another body, it does not mean that it shall be forced into an orbit. It is also likely that a body will be flung away from the larger body, or even pulled directly into it causing a collision.

None of these seem to guarantee any ascertainable number of moons. What i'm getting at here: moons should be more-or-less random in number. Though 587 moons might be a little excessive.
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Stars would only be recognized by civilizations in the form of constellations. (ex. On the oaken chest is a masterfully crafted image of swordsmashed the constellation in cowhide leather.)

Love the idea. So much. I'd love to have engravings and such of stars and constellations.
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Other phenomenon like black holes and supernovas would likely be too overly complex just to destroy the entire planet.

Would be interesting for Legends, but otherwise I agree. These are likely just far too complex and irrelevant to be bothered with. Far too off-course for Toady, I might think.

The whole topic is a bit esoteric, and there are definitely things I'd love to see added before this, but as far as for finishing touches on the game? I feel this would be great.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 12:28:00 am by Iden »
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kylefiredemon

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2011, 12:37:22 am »

Railguns and spacecannons are smalltime, build a space elevator of soap instead.
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MasterFancyPants

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2011, 12:11:43 pm »

Why can't we just dig out the bottom of the mountain and place a booze stockpile under it?
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dwarf_sadist

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 09:33:54 pm »

Railguns and spacecannons are smalltime, build a space elevator of soap instead.

Or attach explosives to the bottom of an obsidian noble room and drop it into a volcano.
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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2011, 10:26:58 pm »

Railguns and spacecannons are smalltime, build a space elevator of soap instead.

Or attach explosives to the bottom of an obsidian noble room and drop it into a volcano.

I thought that was basically what Fancy Pants suggested...

RabidAnubis

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2011, 10:35:53 pm »

A universe? I hope there are going to be !!FUN!! ways of going to new planets...
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truckman1

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2011, 01:40:15 am »

Railguns and spacecannons are smalltime, build a space elevator of soap instead.
The game already has a space elevator. The Adamantium Space Elevator. Your game just needs to break during worldgen to make it, due to the theoretically infinite height. Maybe if we repurposed one of those supercomputers universities have we could gen those worlds and follow the column up enough that eventually we get to the other end, on another planet. Jack and the Beanstalk style, only it goes through space.

None of these seem to guarantee any ascertainable number of moons. What i'm getting at here: moons should be more-or-less random in number. Though 587 moons might be a little excessive.

That wouldn't be that many moons at all...........If you were talking about a ringed planet that is  ;D. Being on a ringed planet would be awesome, and now that I think about it, there doesn't seem to be much fiction which takes place on them. Can rings only be on gas giants? Well if so, we could always screw it and make a terrestrial ringed planet anyway. Or we could have a world be a MOON of a planet, gas giant :o. Then it could be like in Halo, where the ring is orbiting between a gas giant and its moon. And, of course, that leads us to the possibility of living on non-spherical bodies. Like rings, or giant Cubes with different gravity wells on each face, or a hollow earth, a Möbius strip-world could be a pretty cool world, in a mindfucking way.
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Starmantis

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2011, 09:42:24 am »

Now, what about a chance of proceduraly generated extraterrestrials invading.
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Iden

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2011, 04:03:17 pm »


None of these seem to guarantee any ascertainable number of moons. What i'm getting at here: moons should be more-or-less random in number. Though 587 moons might be a little excessive.

That wouldn't be that many moons at all...........If you were talking about a ringed planet that is  ;D. Being on a ringed planet would be awesome, and now that I think about it, there doesn't seem to be much fiction which takes place on them. Can rings only be on gas giants? Well if so, we could always screw it and make a terrestrial ringed planet anyway. Or we could have a world be a MOON of a planet, gas giant :o. Then it could be like in Halo, where the ring is orbiting between a gas giant and its moon. And, of course, that leads us to the possibility of living on non-spherical bodies. Like rings, or giant Cubes with different gravity wells on each face, or a hollow earth, a Möbius strip-world could be a pretty cool world, in a mindfucking way.

Well, the question arises of what precisely constitutes a "natural satellite" or a moon -- something I am a little less familiar with than with larger-scale cosmological concepts. It is something I must do some looking into, but what I am truly curious of is whether an asteroid belt orbiting a planet is to be consider all of those asteroids moons. When do asteroids become moons?

From a quick browse just now:
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Wikipedia: Natural Satellites
There is not an established lower limit on what is considered a moon. Every body with an identified orbit, some as small as a kilometer across, has been identified as a moon, though objects a tenth that size within Saturn's rings, which have not been directly observed, have been called moonlets. Small asteroid moons, such as Dactyl, have also been called moonlets.
Well, it seems rather difficult to define what is a moon and what is not. By this definition, pretty much anything is -- anything in a ring is technically a moon or moonlet. Typically, I personally would consider objects in a ring or belt to not be moons, perhaps moonlets is appropriate in that sense (excluding particularly tiny dust and ice particles particles/chunks, of course). So an extremely high number of "moons" is possible, I suppose. I just feel as if counting asteroid belts or rings around planets as "moons" to be a bit unnecessary, and that they should be considered separate entities as far as planet creation goes. It might also make it easier. A planet could have a ring, and a moon -- Like Saturn for example. Perhaps even a belt, as well. Could make for some pretty interesting planet-systems.

As far as planets with rings go, as it appears in our solar system, gas giants are almost exclusively the only kinds of planets with rings. However, one of Saturn's moons, Rhea, has a small ring, as well, but is not gaseous.

While it is not entirely known what causes rings to form, one proposed theory is that it has something to do with the ratio of size and mass of a body (planet) that causes it to form rings. Another reason could have also been a collision, though I feel as if that would leave larger chunks and would likely have caused other moons -- though it is completely possible that what was leftover that did not get formed into moons could have been pulled into orbit as rings.

Jupiter does have rings, and is 11x the size of Earth, and over 300x the mass of Earth. Saturn is ~9x the size of Earth, and ~100x the mass of Earth. It seems, thusfar, that gas giants tend to be proportionally smaller for having very high mass. This makes sense as the gravitational energy can be used to condense gasses into a much smaller size than it could condense solids. Perhaps it is that solid planets are simply too large for their masses to properly allow stable orbits for rings to form.

I think it depends how detailed and exact Toady would wish to get. What I do feel, however, is that it would be fun to throw in rings around some planets. At least if rings are most likely to only form around gas giants, for whatever reason, it should be perfectly acceptable that collisions could throw out asteroid belts around solid planets, giving them a sort of "ring" or belt of its own.

Asteroid belts around planets could also open up a new, very interesting, option for Toady as well: Meteorites. Asteroids falling to ground during history (or during the course of the game) and having crash sites around the world. It would be grand to discover a meteorite, and mine what materials could come from it. It also opens up a new possibility for more Fun, as well, as who knows what might be found around a meteorite, or have come with it. This could also lead to very rare arms & armour being circulated throughout the world history, and lead to some interesting historical figures. Even battles over meteorite crash sites.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 04:06:19 pm by Iden »
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Lord Inquisitor

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2011, 11:09:38 pm »

as above on the Meteorites part.

Sealing suits of armout would be of benifit right now, esp for a embark on a planet of poison atmosphere or working in purple rot filled rooms without effects. Sanitation armour
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Hark

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2011, 11:33:41 pm »

With this we can have random meteor and asteroid impacts. Absolutly devestating to your map, but leaves behind large amounts of rare minerals.

All the more reason to build your fortress deep down underground so that you stand a chance of surviving the Adamantium Planetkiller.
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612DwarfAvenue

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2011, 11:37:22 pm »

That wouldn't be that many moons at all...........If you were talking about a ringed planet that is  ;D. Being on a ringed planet would be awesome, and now that I think about it, there doesn't seem to be much fiction which takes place on them. Can rings only be on gas giants? Well if so, we could always screw it and make a terrestrial ringed planet anyway. Or we could have a world be a MOON of a planet, gas giant :o. Then it could be like in Halo, where the ring is orbiting between a gas giant and its moon. And, of course, that leads us to the possibility of living on non-spherical bodies. Like rings, or giant Cubes with different gravity wells on each face, or a hollow earth, a Möbius strip-world could be a pretty cool world, in a mindfucking way.

Hell.

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Hark

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2011, 11:41:39 pm »

That wouldn't be that many moons at all...........If you were talking about a ringed planet that is  ;D. Being on a ringed planet would be awesome, and now that I think about it, there doesn't seem to be much fiction which takes place on them. Can rings only be on gas giants? Well if so, we could always screw it and make a terrestrial ringed planet anyway. Or we could have a world be a MOON of a planet, gas giant :o. Then it could be like in Halo, where the ring is orbiting between a gas giant and its moon. And, of course, that leads us to the possibility of living on non-spherical bodies. Like rings, or giant Cubes with different gravity wells on each face, or a hollow earth, a Möbius strip-world could be a pretty cool world, in a mindfucking way.
My Dwarves are going to live in a Dyson Sphere. That way when they dig down far enough they realise that the universe is far larger than they could have ever imagined.
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truckman1

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2011, 10:10:29 am »

With this we can have random meteor and asteroid impacts. Absolutly devestating to your map, but leaves behind large amounts of rare minerals.

All the more reason to build your fortress deep down underground so that you stand a chance of surviving the Adamantium Planetkiller.

It would have to be a PRETTY DAMN BIG CHUNK OF ADAMANTIUM for it to be killing any planets. Otherwise, it would just be like a giant beachball or a hunk of styrofoam falling from the sky.
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Draco18s

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Re: Universe Generator
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 11:32:12 am »

A universe? I hope there are going to be !!FUN!! ways of going to new planets...

I keep generating boring universes.  They don't have any life in them, as the random physical properties don't allow matter coalesce into planets.
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