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[Tellemurius]

I didn't say it wasn't. It definitely is. But the point still stands. The most likely beneficiary isn't the person receiving CPR, it's the people who get their organs.

Rethink that one as it sounds like the surgeons are waiting at the morgue ready to ravaged your lifeless corpse.

Which type of doctor?

One with a MD.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

I didn't say it wasn't. It definitely is. But the point still stands. The most likely beneficiary isn't the person receiving CPR, it's the people who get their organs.

Rethink that one as it sounds like the surgeons are waiting at the morgue ready to ravaged your lifeless corpse.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by that.

One with a MD.

Doesn't mean he has experience with CPR. See my edit.

[Bauglir]

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.

Your trying to make it more complicated then it is though, that's for sure. Like any of the mutated cells in me are equivalent in any way to it. Yeah. No.

No, I'm not. Where's the distinction, actually? A blastocyst requires specific environmental conditions, present in the uterus, in order to become a person. To claim that it will become a human with no further intervention is like claiming that human life violates the second law of thermodynamics because it's highly ordered, ignoring completely the energy input from the Sun. Ignoring key parts of a system just means you don't understand the system. Any one of your cells, subject to the appropriate environmental conditions, could also grow into a complete human being (though those conditions are much obnoxiously difficult to achieve).

If your argument can't handle corner cases like this, it's not scientifically acceptable. It can still be acceptable, worthwhile, even admirable, but you don't get to treat it like you're making your decisions about criteria for what is or is not "human" based on scientific reasoning. We can't even define what a species is in scientific terms, much less a person. To claim that even though an exception for every single criterion exists doesn't make the criteria as a whole invalid, is basically to admit to being arbitrary - even if being arbitrary is the only sensible course of action.

[Tellemurius]

What i mean is just cause its a dead body doesn't mean you get the right to strip of it resources unless the deceased has made it cleared what to do with it. I don't like to know my body will be basically recycled back to society unless i know it will provide good.

[DJ]

And to go back to the argument a couple of pages ago, a child won't survive without it's parents. So I guess you don't become human till ~15 years old?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I didn't say it wasn't. It definitely is. But the point still stands. The most likely beneficiary isn't the person receiving CPR, it's the people who get their organs.

Err....no. CPR means something has gone wrong with your heart, which means you're facing cardiac death. They don't harvest people who suffer cardiac death, only brain death.

[Tellemurius]

And to go back to the argument a couple of pages ago, a child won't survive without it's parents. So I guess you don't become human till ~15 years old?

You are.... alive when you feel suffering.

[GlyphGryph]

And to go back to the argument a couple of pages ago, a child won't survive without it's parents. So I guess you don't become human till ~15 years old?

Children survive without their parents all the time, what the heck are you talking about?

[Durin Stronginthearm]

What i mean is just cause its a dead body doesn't mean you get the right to strip of it resources unless the deceased has made it cleared what to do with it.

I didn't say I did. What I meant was that by performing CPR, even if it doesn't save the person's life, you are prolonging the period that their organs are usuable for (though probably not by much). That's all.

Attacking my posts for factual inaccuracies is fine. Attacking them for what you've imagined they've said is a bit off.

[Tellemurius]

What i mean is just cause its a dead body doesn't mean you get the right to strip of it resources unless the deceased has made it cleared what to do with it.

I didn't say I did. What I meant was that by performing CPR, even if it doesn't save the person's life, you are prolonging the period that their organs are usuable for (though probably not by much). That's all.

Attacking my posts for factual inaccuracies is fine. Attacking them for what you've imagined they've said is a bit off.

Blame the thought train its all over the place not my fault in that other than being alive

[ChairmanPoo]

... actually, most doctors do take guard duty at the ER. But this is academic. Fact is,  I singularily recall the guy who taught us emergency techniques commenting on that oft-cited quip as an exaggeration. And I trust an anesthesiologist with decades of experience than what you overheard from your random paramedic buddy. :p

[Frumple]

What i mean is just cause its a dead body doesn't mean you get the right to strip of it resources unless the deceased has made it cleared what to do with it. I don't like to know my body will be basically recycled back to society unless i know it will provide good.

Man, but you're in trouble, then. Body's recycled regardless of what you do to it, it just depends on the time frame involved. Burying something doesn't make it magically disappear any more than burning it makes the ashes phase out of reality

And to go back to the argument a couple of pages ago, a child won't survive without it's parents. So I guess you don't become human till ~15 years old?

Getting into the partial rights thing, there. Legally, you're not fully human until age of majority, at least in most countries.

You are.... alive when you feel suffering.

Oi. What about people who can't feel pain or suffering? Are you going to call them zombies or fleshrobots?

Children survive without their parents all the time, what the heck are you talking about?

Probably talking specifically newborns, who can't without some sort of support. Surrogate parents or an equivalent if nothing else.

[Criptfeind]

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.

Your trying to make it more complicated then it is though, that's for sure. Like any of the mutated cells in me are equivalent in any way to it. Yeah. No.

No, I'm not. Where's the distinction, actually? A blastocyst requires specific environmental conditions, present in the uterus, in order to become a person. To claim that it will become a human with no further intervention is like claiming that human life violates the second law of thermodynamics because it's highly ordered, ignoring completely the energy input from the Sun. Ignoring key parts of a system just means you don't understand the system. Any one of your cells, subject to the appropriate environmental conditions, could also grow into a complete human being (though those conditions are much obnoxiously difficult to achieve).

Except I never claimed to state the truth about what a human is. And yes. A blastocyst needs it's environment, but it is already there and will work on a automated system. None of my cells will. The key difference can be in obnoxiously difficult condition. You're not talking about cells in my body. You're talking about cells taken from my body and painstakingly work upon and nurtured and put in a environment where they will thrive.

How can you not seem the innumerable differences here? Each and every one can be used as the justification.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

I didn't say it wasn't. It definitely is. But the point still stands. The most likely beneficiary isn't the person receiving CPR, it's the people who get their organs.

Err....no. CPR means something has gone wrong with your heart, which means you're facing cardiac death. They don't harvest people who suffer cardiac death, only brain death.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Are you saying that organs are only harvested after people are declared brain dead? I should hope so, but that doesn't conflict with what I've said.

If you mean that organs aren't harvested from people whose primary cause of death was cardiac failure, then perhaps that's the case in Raleigh, North Carolina, United States of America. Not the case here, as far as I understand.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

... actually, most doctors do take guard duty at the ER. But this is academic. Fact is,  I singularily recall the guy who taught us emergency techniques commenting on that oft-cited quip as an exaggeration. And I trust an anesthesiologist with decades of experience than what you overheard from your random paramedic buddy. :p

Ah well, perhaps I am wrong then. My apologies.