You were talking about "potential" being "increased"
Yes? From basically nothing to a whole lot. Like, the potential to be a human goes from <1% to 100%.
I'm... not even sure what you mean now. Increased potential is not the same as actually being something. Please stop pretending these are the same concepts.
Miscarriages happen all the time, at various stages of the pregnancy. Fact of the matter is, both mother and child can very easily die at any time of pregnancy. Historically, it wasn't uncommon for women to die in childbirth. Same thing for the baby. No, people do not understand miscarriages.... Trust me, I am the gay friend whose damp shoulder has been cried upon many a times for this. People just don't talk about it.
I'm aware that miscarriages can happen at any time, and no, I'm not going to "trust you" based on any anecdotal evidence. I don't care whose gay friend (whatever that's supposed to imply) you are. If you want to talk about miscarriage statistics, then give me miscarriage statistics.
Second, "Telling the difference:" Between a miscarriage and a negligent infanticide.
When I said "negligent infanticide" I was talking about actual born children; most of your post here is acting otherwise, so I apologize for being unclear. I am definitely not suggesting anything regarding the prosecution of fetal "infanticide", which I agree is a pretty sticky issue especially when considering culpability.
I was making the point that if a human life being dependent upon the parent does not cause the parent to be obligated to make sure it doesn't die, why is killing a born child through negligence illegal? I just don't buy the idea that (risk to the mother aside, as that's another important consideration) even if a fetus is considered legally a human child, that the mother has no obligation to take care of it, because we very clearly expect parents to take care of their born children. This isn't to say that I agree that a fetus is a human child; that's another argument entirely.
"I'm aware that miscarriages can happen at any time, and no, I'm not going to "trust you" based on any anecdotal evidence. I don't care whose gay friend (whatever that's supposed to imply) you are. If you want to talk about miscarriage statistics, then give me miscarriage statistics."
http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htmYou really don't have to be like that you know.
Sadly, miscarriages are a very common occurrence. Sources vary, but many estimate that approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; and some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss.
Although statistics can vary slightly from one source to the next, here is a general account (based primarily on information provided by the March of Dimes) of the frequency of miscarriages in the United States:
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There are about 4.4 million confirmed pregnancies in the U.S. every year.
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900,000 to 1 million of those end in pregnancy losses EVERY year.
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More than 500,000 pregnancies each year end in miscarriage (occurring during the first 20 weeks).
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Approximately 26,000 end in stillbirth (considered stillbirth after 20 weeks)
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Approximately 19,000 end in infant death during the first month.
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Approximately 39,000 end in infant death during the first year.
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Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss.
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Approximately 75% of all miscarriages occur in the first trimester.
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An estimated 80% of all miscarriages are single miscarriages. The vast majority of women suffering one miscarriage can expect to have a normal pregnancy next time.
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An estimated 19% of the adult population has experienced the death of a child (this includes miscarriages through adult-aged children).
And, that's exactly the problem I'm talking about. It's a very emotional issue and people get those tied up in it. People's feelings cloud their judgment. They get pissed off that some kid died and rather than feel sorry for the mother, they often get pissed at her and blame her....
As for the "
any anecdotal evidence," chill out man. A lot of what I and other lawyers say is "anecdotal," and that doesn't diminish from it one bit. It's from practical professional/personal experience, and they often blend together. I do not perform "experiments." I listen to people in a confidential setting where they feel it is OK to tell me the truth. I have heard a ton of women talk about their miscarriages to me. The only thing my being gay or an attorney has to do with this is that those are characteristics making it more likely for women to trust me as either their close friend or as a person with whom they have a legal confidential relationship.
The fact that I didn't construct a sample with a control group, do up the variances/standard deviations, functional forms, work the math for a confidence variable and a statistical significance P level of .05 or above while checking for
Heteroskedasticity with a white test, as well as gamma distribution of the sample with means and modes doens't mean shit.
Fact of the matter is, most stats I've seen done are flawed and I used to make it a hobby of picking them apart, especially in psychology where the only functional form they taught was linear.
Anecdotal evidence, in the right circumstances can be incredibly enlightening and people are foolish to ignore it. Trials are based entirely upon Anecdotal evidence. No experiment is done or even possible in any of the trials I've done. They aren't gonna call in a team of statisticians to determine if my client stole something.
That said you should be CAREFUL of it, yes. Entirely dismissive solely on the basis that there isn't an experiment for it? [shrugs] I dunno.
I was making the point that if a human life being dependent upon the parent does not cause the parent to be obligated to make sure it doesn't die,
O, between a live parent and child, yes. We were talking about abortion, but that's cool.
What I was saying is that ordinarily two people have no duty to keep each other alive. This is true absent special circumstances/special relationships. The parent child one should only apply after the kid is born. My point was that miscarriages are too easily confused for "negligent (prenatal) infanticides."
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Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread (Read 870663 times)