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[Max White]

You guys have private prisons, or something like that? Not sure how it works... How would the prison system, that is detaining convicted criminals, impact on the policing or court systems?

[Tellemurius]

You guys have private prisons, or something like that? Not sure how it works... How would the prison system, that is detaining convicted criminals, impact on the policing or court systems?

At this point i haven't even heard of a private prison and for now thats alot of people behind bars doing jack shit.

[Max White]

They aren't owned by the government, federal or state, instead they are contracted out and get paid by the state per prisoner... Or something like that.

[Tellemurius]

They aren't owned by the government, federal or state, instead they are contracted out and get paid by the state per prisoner... Or something like that.

Nope it goes like this: Department of Justice controls the federal prisons, then theres state prisons, then local prisons, then just the drunk bastard in the sheriff's office, there has not been a third party as far as i know.

[Montague]

You guys have private prisons, or something like that? Not sure how it works... How would the prison system, that is detaining convicted criminals, impact on the policing or court systems?

There are high minimum mandatory sentences that keep people locked up for a long time, even for fairly minor offenses like drug possession. Police are aggressive and effective at making arrests. It seems impossible to reform because officals don't want to look 'soft on crime' so the absurd sentences continue to be doled out.

Private prisons... they are government-owned and regulated but run by private contractors. It's a cost-saving measure (though it's debatable how much they really save) for local governments, which is understandable from their perspective because they sentence lots and lots of people to prison and that's expensive. They tend to save money mostly because they can hand liability over to some company, who'll get sued for screwing up, rather then the government getting sued.

Also, Americans just don't seem to give a shit if something is illegal or not and will do it even if it risks them getting thrown in prison. I think something like 1/3rd of Americans use illegal drugs, dispite everything. DUI's are pretty popular too. So everyone goes to prison. Yay.

[Max White]

Ah, so when you say your prison system is fucked, what you really mean is that your political system is fucked.

[Frumple]

We've got a growing privatized prison system, yes, and there's already a shitload of money behind them. S'been influencing shit like drug laws and pushing through bullshit minimum sentence stuff, to inflate the prison population unnecessarily, among gods frak know what the hell else.

'Course, what pisses me the fuck off about it is the fact that we've got some of them resorting g'damn penal slavery doing shit like electronics manufacture -- work that, if it was being done by an unincarcerated citizen, would be giving someone better than minimum wage. That's how they're pulling a profit.

But yeah, conditions aside (They're pretty g'damn bad in a lot of the states), just the damn concept of people trying to profit off of crime is pretty disgusting -- and that's exactly what the private prisons are doing. They have exactly zero incentive to reduce crime and prevent recidivism, and every incentive to do the exact opposite. There was a quote somewhere back on either this thread or another fairly recent one that had a message to shareholders or something that specifically stated that the corporation involved was going to fight any litigation (such as removing or reducing minimum sentencing for drug possession, ferex) that reduced the prisoner population.

There's a lot of other problems with it, though. It's come up in four or five different threads now, including this one. For-proft prison systems are just a god damn horrible idea all around.

Also, I'm rambling and it's 1 AM, I think it's nap time. Peace for the night, folks.

Quick E:

Ah, so when you say your prison system is fucked, what you really mean is that your political system is fucked.

No, the prison system is fucked right to hell, too.

I posted an article here a while ago about prisons that suggested, due to prison rape, men were raped in the US more than women.

This isn't the case.

150k+ rapes -- just for males -- is not a thing that is functioning well.

[Max White]

Yea see we don't have that. Nobody is making money from our prisoners, thus nobody wants them in prison. All it does is cost tax payers money, so we like to take the lesser approach when ever possible.
I know some friends who got arrested for possession, pleaded guilty, and got off with some community service looking after a drug rehab centre.

[Tellemurius]

well see, usually thats when the judge actually gives a fuck of whats he doing, too bad its rare.


 Buddy of mine got into a major accident with local road crew, none of them got hit but he was guilty of careless driving above a misdemeanor, judge threw it out since he spent months in the hospital from being fucked up and felt he was punished enough.

[Montague]

It's a complex issue, but I think politics are less to blame then other factors. If there is a political problem, I think some of it is a sort of conservative philosophy based on Christian mores and individual freedom that a lot of people hold. They feel like if some portion of the population can't adapt and can't conform and they choke on the sweet taste of freedom, they should rightfully deserve to live in a prison and spare everybody the problem of dealing with them. The recidivism rate of released prisoners and an instilled prison/gang culture only justifies this view point- "They want to live in a prison, that's why they keep coming back" so they support things like long sentences for minor crimes. Or they look at the declining crime rates and increasing prison population. Or they look at the failure of more 'liberal' prison rehabilitation efforts, like in California and conclude it isn't worth the effort of trying to intergrate the majority of offenders into society anyways. So they basically feel justified in locking people up.

That might be something from my imagination, or a small part of the problem in reality. I think it really lies with people simply taking crime as a short cut alternative to getting a 'real' job that pays a lot less. Or some sort of criminal business might be the only real employment option people have. Or people break the law because they have a rebel, independant sort of mentality and don't think they'll ever get caught and don't have any sort of future to look forward to anyways.

Or something like that.

[G-Flex]

It's a complex issue, but I think politics are less to blame then other factors. If there is a political problem, I think some of it is a sort of conservative philosophy based on Christian mores and individual freedom that a lot of people hold.

The ones who seem to care most about Christian conservative philosophy seem the least concerned with people actually having individual freedom. Unless you discount, I don't know, every single issue they care about.

[Max White]

Right wing personal freedom: You are free to like what we like, hate what we hate, pray like we pray and think like we think, or you are free to leave.


EDIT: Semi-relevant still!
Apparently there will be new laws down here that you can only buy ammo for a gun that you are registered for, so if you get a .22 you can't buy shotgun ammo. Makes sense.

[Pnx]

Something weird I'm noticing is that while assaults and rapes are reported more, murders are significantly less reported. Yet the country has a hell of a lot worse drug problem.

I'm wondering what factors prompt that difference.

[Andir]

DESCRIBE THE ESCALATION OF FORCE AND EXPLAIN THE ROLES
AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT
HOLDER IN ESCALATING AND DE-ESCALATING
CONFRONTATIONS.   
1.     Confrontation/threatening presence
2.   Verbal threats
3.  Physical
4.  Less than deadly force
5.   Deadly force

This is Utah's

Not going to discuss firearm regulation again, but I have to point out that physical escalation point is a very dangerous one.  I was well informed in my training to not engage in a situation where my weapon could be turned against me.  (IE: going in close enough where the attacker could use my own weapon against me and then others.)  I guess that's a difference between Ohio/Utah.  It just seems odd to me.  I was trained to know and keep my weapon secure and getting close enough to touch the person is close enough for them to touch/find my weapon and be not secure.  It's also part of the training for CCW that you not brandish/expose the weapon until you are ready to use it... after changing stance and verbal warnings: "Do not take another step closer... I will defend myself... retreat now"  If they continue to approach you, I was informed that infers intent to harm and am well in my right to defend.  Which, to a jury, makes sense.  If the assailant see you changing stance to defend, and they still make an approach, they intend to hurt/confront you.  I was never told to keep shooting until they are dead.  Two shots, center mass.  If they do not stop, two more... This is why slower moving, high caliber (.45) hollow point is suggested because it has more stopping potential than a higher velocity, but smaller 9mm.  In some cases (especially if the person has an adrenaline rush to harm), a 9mm will go right through a person and they will continue toward you.

[Montague]

Something weird I'm noticing is that while assaults and rapes are reported more, murders are significantly less reported. Yet the country has a hell of a lot worse drug problem.

I'm wondering what factors prompt that difference.

I'm not sure I follow. Your saying you suppose there should be a higher reported murder rate? I'd guess it's because more murder attempts end in failure then not, due to emergency medicine and EMS response being pretty good in the US, fewer people are actually killed rather then assaulted or injured.

This is why slower moving, high caliber (.45) hollow point is suggested because it has more stopping potential than a higher velocity, but smaller 9mm.  In some cases (especially if the person has an adrenaline rush to harm), a 9mm will go right through a person and they will continue toward you.

There is no such thing as "stopping power" a bullet either hits some vital anatomy and is instantly fatal or it doesn't. The kinetic energy of a bullet impact is no worse then the recoil of the gun itself. If a bullet had the energy to knock somebody down, it'd knock down the shooter as well.

Right wing personal freedom: You are free to like what we like, hate what we hate, pray like we pray and think like we think, or you are free to leave.

Well, they are certainly not like the ACLU or something, but they don't adovcate a nanny state or want to have obligations to the community or other people either. Perhaps it's more accurate to say they place emphasis on 'personal responsibility' rather then 'individual freedom', since they don't tolerate other people doing things that contradict their own religious or ethical veiwpoints.