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[Truean]

I am confused on this and that is sadly normal. A lot of it probably is social. Weird thing, I've been told I'm transgender rather than just a cross dresser, etc, because even if I couldn't wear skirts or dresses, I'd still want a woman's body. I'd be sad if I couldn't wear skirts or dresses, very much so, but I'd sill be happier with the body alone than I am currently.

Not sure what to make of that, but the person who told me was a therapist, so.... I dunno, perhaps it might have some weight. I do disagree with them a lot in the area of transgendered procedure though: what you have to do to actually transition.  [shrugs]

Edit: Barbarossa TSG

I somehow doubt your foot is in your mouth. You're being quite nice if nothing else and thanks.

[darkrider2]

What is it to be a women? Why do we have to be a woman or be a man? (Apart from biologically) Why can't we all just be humans?

[Realmfighter]

Because with out labels humanity would fall apart and devolve into anarchy!

Alternatively, I don't even know.

[Descan]

Because obviously if you have a dangly bit in your crotch you're irrevocably different and therefore must be labeled and treated differently. Same for if you have two globes of fat attached to your chest.

Social categorization, yay!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm all for scientific categorization, just not social categorization. Hopefully you see the difference from context~

[Frumple]

Because society. Mostly. There's a long history of gender roles pretty much everywhere. Gods only know how they came about (and they vary and at-times invert depending on the culture, which basically equates as hard proof they've no or little inherent weight.), but they're there, and most people can't be arsed to go beyond them, or have had the roles so heavily hammered into them by their culture that it's basically ingrained. Fighting that kind of training is an absolute vicious conflict.

Plus it's a lot harder to be just human. Male, female, that sort of thing gives you certain set behavior patterns, certain set goals, etc. They basically allow you to fit yourself into a mold and autopilot large amounts of your behavioral patterns, and do so in a way that interaction with other people is much more reliable (You're working from similar axioms, basically.).

"Just human" takes a lot more of a personal, existential, laying of groundwork to get functioning, and a lot more effort to maintain, at least until other sorts of axioms come into play or are laid down between people. Self-identifying as human instead of "Male, female, <insert other role>" takes a great deal of training, really, and immense self-reflection if it's not something taught from a young age (Which, again, gender roles are massively prevalent in most cultures, so it's generally not.). It's not helped by our biological focus on (relatively) small groups and in/out group recognition.

And... and... ... and it's one o'clock, this is a massively complicated subject, and I really need sleep. I'm leaving the ramble as is, I think. Just human would be a lot better. We can find meaningful things to draw in/out group distinction around and establish regular social norms in relation to, not stuff as damned pointless as (lack of) dangly bits. Biggest hurdle is getting the majority of the human species to actually realize how damned pointless it is. Most (absolute majority, here) don't.

[ECrownofFire]

What is it to be a women? Why do we have to be a woman or be a man? (Apart from biologically) Why can't we all just be humans?

How about we're all just "people".

And "woman" and "man" are useful for the convenience of hetero-/homosexual people

Because society. Mostly. There's a long history of gender roles pretty much everywhere. Gods only know how they came about (and they vary and at-times invert depending on the culture, which basically equates as hard proof they've no or little inherent weight.), but they're there, and most people can't be arsed to go beyond them, or have had the roles so heavily hammered into them by their culture that it's basically ingrained.

I'd say gender roles arose mainly from hunter-gatherer days. Men go out and hunt, women stay at home and gather and take care of children. Women are therefore more vulnerable, so men want to protect them.

Inversion of roles could come from that either women could be revered in society for bringing life, or men could be revered for protecting the society (being the more physical).

[kaijyuu]

A lot of our gender roles are a LOT more recent than that. The idea of only women raising children was absurd back during subsistence farming; both raised the kids, both took care of the house, both helped on the farm. It wasn't just the woman churning butter and it wasn't just the man working in the fields. The idea of men being "providers" and women being stuck at home emerged with the middle class.



Anywho I vastly support just seeing others as human. We like to separate ourselves based on irrelevant details, though.

As a side note, I don't immediately devalue the concept of "being a man" or "being a women." The importance of gender is vastly overblown, but if gender is a trait you define yourself by, more power to you. Also yes, since it was mentioned: individuals decide what it means to "be a man" or "be a woman." Members of a group define what the group's about; the group doesn't define what individual members are.

[Sheb]

I think it's really about social structures I guess, with everybody being raised to fit into the gender associated with his/her sex. Being a woman is being what most female are.

[Truean]

http://gma.yahoo.com/chicago-woman-fired-doing-lunch-wins-unemployment-claim-145926016--abc-news.html

And finally a company called on it's bullshit. They gave her so much work to do that she couldn't possibly do it in the time allocated and her job was stressful enough to help give her a stroke. So, she worked through her lunch break clocked out. This is illegal for a company to make someone do in Illinois, because the companies back then didn't care/would work you all day without food in a 12 hour shift if they could. Basically, they demanded that she do the impossible and fired her for it. They want her to do far more than 40 hours worth of work but certainly don't want to pay her overtime and most definitely won't hire another person.... She was fired for doing what she was told to do by one manager and not do to by another....

Whatever, they denied her unemployment benefits, and the court gave them to her. She has since found another job.

[Gatleos]

It's nice to see the system working for an actual human being for once.

[Truean]

It's nice to see the system working for an actual human being for once.

Yup, and I've heard of her lawyer, who actually gets paid. Strange correlation isn't it?
Although, frankly, she's still fired from that job, but it's a good thing she actually managed to find another job.

Speaking of systems and how they don't usually work, especially when *cough* "artificial" persons are involved: http://news.yahoo.com/cruise-ship-survivors-share-stories-both-harrowing-hopeful-195623964--abc-news.html

Yup, this is what happens when you treat everything as a cash cow and milk it for all its worth until dry. "The crew didn't take care of us." Of course not, if the ship company didn't train you in what to do if the thing sank, then how much training do you think they gave the underpaid crew? This is what happens when you trivialize someone's job; here, "you're a glorified butler." Why O why didn't the help risk their lives for minimum wage...? I'm betting they didn't know what to do either. Fact of the matter is doing that safety presentation is a hassle to the company that costs both time and money nobody is willing to spend. The passengers don't even want to do it, because "I paid for this cruise and I'm not wasting my time with that." So, you don't wanna? Too damn bad, because there's a reason we do it and this is sorta the reason. You'll wish you'd known when the ship goes down.... This isn't bullshit you can readily figure out either like "pull this cord to inflate life vest." Where the hell is the muster station for you? That is, where do you go in that ship if shit hits the fan? <--- This is a real concern when everyone panics in that big ship and nobody knows where to go or what to do.

The investors don't care and right now they're more concerned with dodging $90Million + in damages, costs and lawsuits, because once again, their only concern is money. People died, still don't wanna pay....

Every time we get the "The Titanic is unsinkable" attitude the damn thing sinks and we never learn. Ship, economy, whatever, don't worry about it... "unsinkable...."

[GlyphGryph]

Is there any point of this story where this company and it's important employees weren't doing shit that was monumentally stupid? Was there actually a single good decision made at any point in this debacle?

God, the whole chain of command should be thrown in prison.

[Il Palazzo]

Every time we get the "The Titanic is unsinkable" attitude the damn thing sinks and we never learn. Ship, economy, whatever, don't worry about it... "unsinkable...."

If had the power to name all ships in the world, I'd name them "HMS Sinkable" or "USS Sipwreck" or "ORP Untrustworthy" and so on. This would make them 100% sink proof.

[Sheb]

I especially like the part where they say it's a simple electrical problem and then wait two hours to announce the ship is sinking... But then, if they didn't training it's understandable. I can understand them panicking.

Also, couldn't help laughing at the story of the couple waking up, then using their iPhone to determine that the ship was tanking 23° and then go "Oh my god, we're sinking.". What would we do whithout our gadgets.

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/coast-guard-ordered-ship-captain-back-board-124134509.html

"Managers" don't cut it. You need to have a captain and train/pay him well. "Managers" are the first ones to save their skins in business when it goes bad....

What do you mean "It's dark?" No emergency lighting? You're telling me even the Captain didn't have a flashlight? So basically they were dangerously short on training and basic emergency equipment...?