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[Leafsnail]

New rule: "How's about we say, 'The fundies' from now on if possible instead of 'Christians,' 'ChristainsTM,' etc?" Perhaps that will make it appear to be less of a generalization? This is an honest effort to not alienate those Christians here who are not that way.

I don't think anyone has even mentioned the word "Christian", or even hinted at it (ctrl+F confirms this).  The articles about this case don't even mention the family's faith.  If you think there's a problem here somewhere you should probably point it out?

[Nadaka]

New rule: "How's about we say, 'The fundies' from now on if possible instead of 'Christians,' 'ChristainsTM,' etc?" Perhaps that will make it appear to be less of a generalization? This is an honest effort to not alienate those Christians here who are not that way.

I didn't say christian once. In fact, no one has in this current topic.

The republicans, including McCain have said it is a jobs killing policy to ban Uranium Mining Companies from operating close to the Grand Canyon.... This is called preservation of a major tourism site/national treasure....

Who writes this guy's speeches? This is not the time to say stuff like that Mr. Romney. You're in first place man. All you have to do is not screw it up.... Yup, that is, you don't have to do much of anything, except not do that one thing.... Just clam up, stick to the script and let the other guy trip all over himself.... You know Santorum will, and Ron Paul has a history of not making it....

Can we please change the topic?

I really don't see anything here that was offensive, but ok. So, republicans are tough on crime? A convicted murderer that was denied parole a few weeks ago was pardoned by Governor Haley Barbour (R, MS). It is also tradition for that kind of convict to serve as a servant in the governors mansion. http://news.yahoo.com/miss-gov-barbour-pardons-convicted-murderer-162734503.html

[Willfor]

My problem was that we were getting onto the issue of the morality of religion itself, which has been a subject that has caused much grief in this thread between people debating the finer points of it -- which is not what this topic is for. There are people here who are pro-religion, and there are people here who are anti-religion, and we've seen in the past how easy it is to turn this entire topic into Atheist Redux 3.0. Which would be a fine enough topic, but only as a topic of its own. One that I could avoid actually looking at if I were more concerned about specific events happening in modern western society than I was about people trying to justify their belief systems.

[Truean]

New rule: "How's about we say, 'The fundies' from now on if possible instead of 'Christians,' 'ChristainsTM,' etc?" Perhaps that will make it appear to be less of a generalization? This is an honest effort to not alienate those Christians here who are not that way.

I don't think anyone has even mentioned the word "Christian", or even hinted at it (ctrl+F confirms this).  The articles about this case don't even mention the family's faith.  If you think there's a problem here somewhere you should probably point it out?

I know I'VE said it and I'm trying to figure out how to be nice if possible.

[RedKing]

I don't think that Romney quote will hurt him that badly with people who are inclined to vote Republican in the first place. LOTS of people would probably love to fire a waiter/waitress who doesn't make everything exactly to their liking, because that waiter isn't a person to them. They don't think "Oh, but then they'd have trouble paying their bills and they might have a family that depends on them, and it may not have been their fault to begin with, etc."

It's just "I said NO PICKLES! OFF with their heads!" There are plenty of people who would love to have that kind of power. It's why shows like The Apprentice and American Idol are so popular, it gives people the illusion that they have some kind of control over other peoples' lives, or a voyueristic thrill over watching someone else get fired.

Admittedly it's maybe not showing much empathy at a time when a lot of people have been laid off, but to most people there's a distinct difference between being fired and being laid off. Being fired is something that happens because you're not good (or alternately from the view of the fire-ee, because your boss is an asshole). Being laid off is something people blame on the economy/President/congress rather than the employer or themselves. So people who have been laid off don't necessarily see Romney's comment as relating to them. After all, they weren't fired, they were laid off because Obama and the Democrats killed the economy with regulation, right? 

[Leafsnail]

My problem was that we were getting onto the issue of the morality of religion itself, which has been a subject that has caused much grief in this thread between people debating the finer points of it -- which is not what this topic is for. There are people here who are pro-religion, and there are people here who are anti-religion, and we've seen in the past how easy it is to turn this entire topic into Atheist Redux 3.0. Which would be a fine enough topic, but only as a topic of its own. One that I could avoid actually looking at if I were more concerned about specific events happening in modern western society than I was about people trying to justify their belief systems.

To be honest... I think you're misrepresenting the nature of the discussion.  There was certainly no discussion of "the morality of religion itself".  There was instead "Were the people in this case fundamentally crazy or is it at least somewhat due to the ideas they had been taught".  Raising the possibility that ideas (not necessarily Christian, not necessarily even religious) can spread and be dangerous does not automatically imply that your beliefs or religious beliefs as a whole are dangerous or morally bad.

Who writes this guy's speeches? This is not the time to say stuff like that Mr. Romney. You're in first place man. All you have to do is not screw it up.... Yup, that is, you don't have to do much of anything, except not do that one thing.... Just clam up, stick to the script and let the other guy trip all over himself.... You know Santorum will, and Ron Paul has a history of not making it....

I think this is kindof unfair.  I'm not at all sympathetic to Mitt Romney's views but I can see exactly what he's trying to say (maybe "Boycott" or something would've been a better word than fire).

[Dutchling]

New rule: "How's about we say, 'The fundies' from now on if possible instead of 'Christians,' 'ChristainsTM,' etc?" Perhaps that will make it appear to be less of a generalization? This is an honest effort to not alienate those Christians here who are not that way.

I don't think anyone has even mentioned the word "Christian", or even hinted at it (ctrl+F confirms this).  The articles about this case don't even mention the family's faith.  If you think there's a problem here somewhere you should probably point it out?

I know I'VE said it and I'm trying to figure out how to be nice if possible.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And now I'm going to do my incredibly boring school assignment about child baptism.

[Willfor]

I may be a little trigger happy when it comes to trying to pull the discussion away from religious topics. I'll try to wait a little longer in the future.

[FearfulJesuit]

Where can I get a pair of Fundies, and do you have a bigger image? I can't read everything on the box.

[Dutchling]

Where can I get a pair of Fundies, and do you have a bigger image? I can't read everything on the box.

Spoiler: (kinda) off topic (click to show/hide)

(half the fun is getting in them, the other half is up to you)

Includes 4 legs and 2 (can't read?) (2 close friends not included)

Ah, the silly things you learn from 9gag

[ggamer]

damn. I'll cede Social Services if that's true, probably to someone who isn't a sophomore in high school.

I was also arguing on that. Will you cede the point to a sophomore in college?

sure.

As they say, the french are only good at two things: surrenderin', and kissin' (also a joke). And LOL, no, we lost because we rigidly applied the old rules of warfare against an army that couldn't even be called an army. Once more, I suggest The Ugly American, it sums the whole situation up quite well.

...Indiscriminately bombing landscape and people with napalm and chemical weapons (to the point of newborns still suffering from mental and physical deformities to this very day because of it) is "rigidly applying the old rules of warfare" nowadays?

Basically. The (tentatively saying this) Communist forces in vietnam worked by large scale guerilla warfare and propoganda trains, while the American/French forces worked largely by pointing our guns and shooting. Bombs and helicopters still worked, so they used lots of those.



@TRUEAN

Okay, so not only did I misunderstand your Christians TM line, which CAUSED the tangential rant, I completely missed it, which caused my rant to look like incoherent rambling. Sorry about that.

Wow, I sure am saying sorry a lot. Guess there's a reason it's called the "PROGRESSIVE rage thread"

Also, while i'm not exactly supportive of homosexuals and transsexuals, I would never go that far. I can't really understand how one would go about being christian and gay, because god limits a bit more than homosexual relations (As in anything but straight sex. Like, super straight sex. Unsurprisingly, this is usually the first rule to be broken.)

Though I would go towards the jeering insult/exorcism route for satanists. seeing as how we worship god and they worship Satan, we don't exactly get along on non-bloody-fist-fight terms. There are places religious tolerance can't go, and that place is towards the worshiper of the embodiment of all that is wrong in the world.


EDIT: And this is why ggamer never hits the post key on accident.

[GlyphGryph]

Learn2Quote.

Seriously now. Edit that and fix it right this minute.

[Willfor]

I'm pretty sure the majority of satanists don't actually worship satan, and instead follow a left-handed path. They've taken on the name for shock value, because that is how they roll.

[GlyphGryph]

Yes, Ggamer, the primary issue that keeps coming up is simply that you aren't really familiar with the subjects you're discussing. You've got a whole boatload of unfounded assumptions that you're trying to turn into arguments. And that's pretty cool, actually, so long as your learning something from the experience - namely, that many of those assumptions are pretty unfounded.

I can't really understand how one would go about being christian and gay,

They just ignore the bits they don't like, just like 99% of the rest of the Christians? I can't think of any Christian that follows the bible, exactly.

And God doesn't even have it out for homosexuals to the extent the religious like to pretend - his few mentions are vague, trumped by the things Jesus said, and generally on par with the evils of shellfish and mixed fabrics. So I don't see how it's any harder for a homosexual to be Christian than anyone else who does any of those things. And God knows people reinterpreting Christianity to support their own biases has historical precedent. (See: ALL THE CHURCHES, ALL THE POLITICIANS)

[Truean]

Learn2Quote.

Seriously now. Edit that and fix it right this minute.

Seconded.....

damn. I'll cede Social Services if that's true, probably to someone who isn't a sophomore in high school.

I was also arguing on that. Will you cede the point to a sophomore in college?

sure.

As they say, the french are only good at two things: surrenderin', and kissin' (also a joke). And LOL, no, we lost because we rigidly applied the old rules of warfare against an army that couldn't even be called an army. Once more, I suggest The Ugly American, it sums the whole situation up quite well.

...Indiscriminately bombing landscape and people with napalm and chemical weapons (to the point of newborns still suffering from mental and physical deformities to this very day because of it) is "rigidly applying the old rules of warfare" nowadays?

Basically. The (tentatively saying this) Communist forces in vietnam worked by large scale guerilla warfare and propoganda trains, while the American/French forces worked largely by pointing our guns and shooting. Bombs and helicopters still worked, so they used lots of those.



@TRUEAN

Okay, so not only did I misunderstand your Christians TM line, which CAUSED the tangential rant, I completely missed it, which caused my rant to look like incoherent rambling. Sorry about that.

Wow, I sure am saying sorry a lot. Guess there's a reason it's called the "PROGRESSIVE rage thread"

Also, while i'm not exactly supportive of homosexuals and transsexuals, I would never go that far. I can't really understand how one would go about being christian and gay, because god limits a bit more than homosexual relations (As in anything but straight sex. Like, super straight sex. Unsurprisingly, this is usually the first rule to be broken.)

Though I would go towards the jeering insult/exorcism route for satanists. seeing as how we worship god and they worship Satan, we don't exactly get along on non-bloody-fist-fight terms. There are places religious tolerance can't go, and that place is towards the worshiper of the embodiment of all that is wrong in the world.


EDIT: And this is why ggamer never hits the post key on accident.

Also, while i'm not exactly supportive of homosexuals and transsexuals, I would never go that far.

[Shrugs] Yep, at least you're not saying you'd go as far as the examples I've listed or probably the ones I haven't listed. Hast thou considered the benefits of being cool with the gays? As long as there is an understanding between you and them that you're not gay/not into them, we make great friends. He'll never try anything with your wife. He'll go antique browsing with her on Sunday leaving you free to watch the big game. The benefits are manifold. If not, then I'd settle for people trying not to make laws against me/letting me live my little life without ill consequences. Did I mention we tend to have women around us as friends which we're not looking for "that way" but which you are....

... Yeah see, I'm not Christian anymore, you know after how I was treated.... I just can't imagine why.... We've had this discussion before about Christianity and how it does or does not ban homosexuality. I'm probably more familiar with the portions of the bible that deal with it than most people. It's mostly Leviticus 18:22. I've provided multiple translations of it in a prior post a that I really don't feel like looking up currently/I'd rather spend my time nailing this Credit Card Company for TILA violations. Fact of the matter being Jesus said exactly nothing about gays and I also found it funny that the guy never had a wife and/or girlfriend despite being 33.... Dude was all popular, rebellious and stuff yet never seems to have been mentioned as with a woman....  I think it would be the ultimate practical joke on fundamentalists if he was gay. Pacifist, no wife/girlfriend, surrounded by like 12 guys....

Regardless, there are absolutely tons of things the bible bans and yet that doesn't stop anyone from doing any of those things, including many Christians (yes, the overwhelming majority). It's the selective / picking and choosing of banned things with a focus on teh gays that kinda gets to me. Leviticus basically flies off the handle and bans pretty much everything, but only teh gays seem to get real focus from this section.

Where's the rage about mixed thread clothing?

God damn polyester/rayon/cotton blends are destroying society!
[rabble rabble rabble, rouse rouse rouse! Rabble rabble rabble.... Um... hamburglar?]