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[ECrownofFire]

Don't forget signing the NDAA and extending the PATRIOT Act

Yeah, there are bad parts. The only reasons I'm most likely voting for him this coming year are that there are no Democrats running to replace him and I doubt Jon Huntsman is getting the Republican nomination. My point was that he has done something.

This is an interesting list (thanks to Reddit).

[Tellemurius]

Hey, that's the site I vaguely remembered and was going to look up to save time.

Don't forget signing the NDAA and extending the PATRIOT Act

Yeah, there are bad parts. The only reasons I'm most likely voting for him this coming year are that there are no Democrats running to replace him and I doubt Jon Huntsman is getting the Republican nomination. My point was that he has done something.

When i heard Huntsman jump on the train i had to check him out. The only sane man in the republicans, shit i'll vote for you.

[scriver]

As they say, the french are only good at two things: surrenderin', and kissin' (also a joke). And LOL, no, we lost because we rigidly applied the old rules of warfare against an army that couldn't even be called an army. Once more, I suggest The Ugly American, it sums the whole situation up quite well.

...Indiscriminately bombing landscape and people with napalm and chemical weapons (to the point of newborns still suffering from mental and physical deformities to this very day because of it) is "rigidly applying the old rules of warfare" nowadays?

[NobodyPro]

...Indiscriminately bombing landscape and people with napalm and chemical weapons (to the point of newborns still suffering from mental and physical deformities to this very day because of it) is "rigidly applying the old rules of warfare" nowadays?

8I, For a moment I thought he was talking about the French in WW1.

[justinlee999]

A.) I was Christian, wanted to be, except you know, I'm gay/trans, which has lead to me being told I'm both going to Hell (by numerous priests and even a treating psychologist) and a pedophile (nope). It was once seriously suggested that I should kill myself due to this by a deacon. They sorta half shoved/ half shuffled me out for being gay and I'm not happy about it. I thought we all were the Children of God, or something like that... Except apparently not.... While this may not hold true for all Christian denominations in the US, I've found it does for the vast majority (see, their political candidates).

Holy shit, people like these still exist? And no less a treating psychologist who is supposed to be secular during treatment?

Also a pedophile telling you that is just... lolwut.

[Sheb]

Every time I read what Truean has to go through, I feel happier to live in Belgium. Damn, things sure aren't perfects here, but as far as gay rights goes, it seems like paradise compared to "The Land of The Free" (Ahem).

Do you know that around here, transsification surgery (no idea how to say that in English) is paid for by Social Security, so by the state? And I never heard anyone complaining about it.

[justinlee999]

From what I've seen, Europe is the best in the world when it comes to human rights.

That is why I want to go to Europe.

Anyway, homophobia is pretty strong in my country (Malaysia), even the Taoists (I don't think Taoism condemns homosexuality or transgenders) are homophobic, some folks have traced it back to the British colonial era when the English were very homophobic at the time.

So even if we, say, get rid of Christianity or Islam (which is not a practical idea), homophobia would still stay for quite a while due to people not accepting it.


Would be pretty fun to try to argue with a homophobic atheist about his beliefs.

[Sheb]

Being an atheist doesn't mean you can't be an asshole.

And don't worry, we still have plenty of homophobic peoples, but frankly they are a minority, and they mostly don't say anything.

[Rose]

Being an atheist doesn't mean you can't be an asshole.

True,  and it's also possible to be an asshole independent of your religion.

[scriver]

Even in Sweden we have plenty of homophobes. I doubt the majority of them would be against equal rights, though (they just want nothing to do with them personally), and only fringe cases would be publicly hateful about it the way certain American candidates are... I really think we need a better word than homophobia for that kind of hate too. It's not really the same thing.

[Truean]

A.) I was Christian, wanted to be, except you know, I'm gay/trans, which has lead to me being told I'm both going to Hell (by numerous priests and even a treating psychologist) and a pedophile (nope). It was once seriously suggested that I should kill myself due to this by a deacon. They sorta half shoved/ half shuffled me out for being gay and I'm not happy about it. I thought we all were the Children of God, or something like that... Except apparently not.... While this may not hold true for all Christian denominations in the US, I've found it does for the vast majority (see, their political candidates).

Holy shit, people like these still exist? And no less a treating psychologist who is supposed to be secular during treatment?

Also a pedophile telling you that is just... lolwut.

While the Catholic church is more than happy to protect pedophiles as long as they are priests, I was saying they often tend to call gays pedophiles for no other reason than because they are gay. This is the "they can't reproduce so they must recruit" attitude and "recruit" apparently means pedophilia. This is where a lot of religious people around me tend to think gays come from, because it's "unnatural." My whole family thinks this, which is why they can't know. Though I've had more than a few of my friends' parents "not want that gay one around the kids." It's slander to call someone a pedophile, but if they're gay, then far too many people are ok with it.... This is why they suggested I should kill myself as a kid: better to commit the sin of suicide than the greater sin of pedophilia, plus I'd be "sparing the victims...." As I recall, he instructed me on how to hang myself in my closet with "one of your father's belts." Such a lovely thing to say to a 9 year old, while claiming to love everyone.... You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe it when I hear that "We love everyone," stuff, 'cause it's usually bullshit.

I really kinda just shrug when I hear American Christians say they are persecuted in the US. They made it illegal to be gay in the US until 2003 in lots of states with large prison sentences. I don't recall anyone throwing Christians in jail in the US for being christians.... Rick Perry still wants being gay criminalized, though he doesn't always seem to remember the specifics or his sanity if he has any. It is was completely bullshit to say it was only "conduct" that was illegal. If you're gay and someone says you had sex, then try and disprove it, cause that's the only defense you had. Yeah, you can't prove that defense (and you should never fucking have to), which meant basically that you accused a gay person of having sex and they were basically found guilty. That's how sodomy trials went down in this country.

Basically the problem I have is people trying to legislate their religion, and doing so rather successfully until someone stops them, and claiming to be persecuted. If you're strong enough to make the laws in this country then how is it possible you're persecuted? No, people are merely calling them on what they're doing, forcing their religion on people through legislation. They only have the overwhelming majority of the power instead of all of it and people like me aren't made felons of merely for being gay as of 2003. How terrible for them.... Hey, it hasn't even been a year since they begrudgingly let us serve openly in the military and that's being threatened too. 5 GOP candidates would reinstate DADT

Look at the accommodations I'm asking for to stop the very real discrimination I face: a.) don't throw me in prison for being gay, b.) don't fire me, evict me, or refuse to sell me a house for being gay/trans, c.) don't beat the living shit out of me for being gay, d.) don't look at me like I'm a freak of nature/throw a hissy fit when I go out on a date with a guy and don't even do PDA, e.) quit telling GLBT, especially kids, that they're going to hell/should kill themselves/are an abomination/anything like that f.) follow the rest of the civilized world and just let me marry a gay guy already. Nothing bad will happen (Canada's just fine). The rest of the civilized world does this. Then compare that to what the other side wants: to basically ruin my life/ tell me how to live it while pretending they aren't doing that.

These things aren't "generalizations." In a representative republic where laws are voted on (or representatives) pointing out that a certain group elects and still tries to elect politicians who try to systemically exile me from society is an entirely valid point. Who do you think is voting for Rick Santorum and Perry? Also even if Perry isn't elected nationally, we're still talking about the governor of one of the biggest states in terms of size and population.... Given the above and a lot more I won't even share here, I'm more than justified in being cautious around this group until and unless individual members prove otherwise to me, due to their history and continued record of dealing with me and people like me badly. It's called self preservation.

Every time I read what Truean has to go through, I feel happier to live in Belgium. Damn, things sure aren't perfects here, but as far as gay rights goes, it seems like paradise compared to "The Land of The Free" (Ahem).

Do you know that around here, transsification surgery (no idea how to say that in English) is paid for by Social Security, so by the state? And I never heard anyone complaining about it.

Yup, we call it "Transitioning" or "SRS (Sexual Reassignment Surgery)." Most countries with decent health care pay for it via national health care or insurance companies, except of course the US. Here, it's been labeled an "experimental, cosmetic, optional surgery." Most private insurance companies won't pay for it. You also can't even deduct it on your taxes as a medical expense, though there has been some recent progress there it is far from iron clad.

One of the major reasons I may never be able to transition is the direct expense of the surgery and the indirect expense of it ruining my job. There aren't a whole lot of transgender attorneys in the US for a reason. You can be fired without the slightest consequence in most US jurisdictions for being gay or trans, and contrary to popular belief you can't be fired for your religion. If you are fired for your religion then you can sue; gay people usually can't. If they actually fired you for your religion, then the employer is totally screwed until and unless they can prove your religion really and truly prevented you from doing your job (a la Microbiologist who says "God did everything" instead of actually doing his job of figuring out how). But hey, despite my being an attorney, most people would rather believe what's on Fox News about employment law despite them having a record of being incorrect.

The US treats transsexuals like shit. That's kinda why there's a 50% attempted suicide rate with a 30% success rate, chronic long term unemployment, homelessness, and often total familial rejection.

[justinlee999]

The US treats transsexuals like shit. That's kinda why there's a 50% attempted suicide rate with a 30% success rate, chronic long term unemployment, homelessness, and often total familial rejection.

Ironically, I hear many people now say that homosexuality is unhealthy because homosexuals suicide more.

It's a vicious cycle.

But I'm pretty sure the US is becoming more and more liberal, as old people die etc., and the younger generation is more chill about these things, hopefully things will change for the better over there.

[Heron TSG]

@justinlee999: There are several other atheists in my town ( ) and two or three of them could be called homophobes. Their 'argument' is less the GOD SAID NO argument, and more the THEY WEIRD ME OUT argument. I think I've been making progress on that, though. Now they don't think that all gay people are pedophiles. (Though they still have the impression that they want to rape everyone, for some reason.) I'm hoping as the homophobic baby boomers die off, there won't be as many people teaching their kids this crap.

@Truean: （　ﾟ Дﾟ ） This is why I'm going to get all political in the future. Something needs to change, because holy shit. There aren't words.

[justinlee999]

@justinlee999: There are several other atheists in my town ( ) and two or three of them could be called homophobes. Their 'argument' is less the GOD SAID NO argument, and more the THEY WEIRD ME OUT argument. I think I've been making progress on that, though. Now they don't think that all gay people are pedophiles. (Though they still have the impression that they want to rape everyone, for some reason.) I'm hoping as the homophobic baby boomers die off, there won't be as many people teaching their kids this crap.

@Truean: （　ﾟ Дﾟ ） This is why I'm going to get all political in the future. Something needs to change, because holy shit. There aren't words.

We'll vote for you, just let us know when you're running for prez and I'm sure we can somehow insert enough votes to defeat thy foes!

[Sheb]

(Though they still have the impression that they want to rape everyone, for some reason.)

Are they male? I've got the impression a lots of guys are creeped out by gays because for once they could be on the wrong side of a rape. (Because of course woman cannot rape...)