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[Truean]

The more I look at things, the more I come to the conclusion that we need translucency, which is similar to transparency, but not showing quite as much. The reason is people will nit pick anything and everything to death if they personally don't like it. Government isn't about what you like; it's about what works. People like not paying taxes, invading other countries and getting all kinds of benefits they don't even acknowledge. <-- We can't do this anymore.

The irony being it will be expensive to implement as we will have to hire an army of specialized accountants and probably attorneys, but overall, it might work, especially if you combat the corruption by forcing people to say what the hell they are doing in concrete numbers. Better planning is my watchphrase.

We have a system that works for corporate profit at all cost and condemns people for little if any fair reason. <-- Problem.

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/authorities-abortion-doctors-charged-murder-150817922.html

1 of these men was practicing without a medical license in that state.

1 of the abortion was believed to be carried out at 36 weeks, AKA 9 months.

I don't really have enough information yet, but even though I am pro choice, it looks like something really bad was going on there.

[ggamer]

http://news.yahoo.com/authorities-abortion-doctors-charged-murder-150817922.html

1 of these men was practicing without a medical license in that state.

1 of the abortion was believed to be carried out at 36 weeks, AKA 9 months.

I don't really have enough information yet, but even though I am pro choice, it looks like something really bad was going on there.

Son of a bitch...

just...

ugh. I'm pro life, so believe me, this is just... wrong.

[Sheb]

Well, if it can rassure you, being pro-choice, I find it just as wrong as you do.

[Vector]

Yup.  Adamantly pro-choice, with you on the "now that's disgusting" thing.

[Pnx]

Yeah, I'm anti-life, for me aborting late term babies is one thing, but hoarding them in your freezer is... more than a little disturbing.

[G-Flex]

36 weeks? Goddamn. That's pretty terrible.

[kaijyuu]

I'm as close to 100% neutral as you could possibly get when it comes to abortion, and I'll also agree about it being disgusting. Why in the hell would you hoard them in your freezer? That's... what? I thought only wacko serial killers hoarded human body parts.

[Vector]

I'm as close to 100% neutral as you could possibly get when it comes to abortion, and I'll also agree about it being disgusting. Why in the hell would you hoard them in your freezer? That's... what? I thought only wacko serial killers hoarded human body parts.

My goodness, what a weird new serial killer story idea, and how volatile!  If I had the chops, I'd write it myself.

[scriver]

I'm pretty sure aborting in the 9th months is doctoralically unethical as well. Unless the mothet is in danger, I mean (only skimmed the article).

My goodness, what a weird new serial killer story idea, and how volatile!  If I had the chops, I'd write it myself.

This here is a case for [A] and !

[Descan]

Preeeeetty sure if it's past a certain date, they try inducing birth if the mother is in peril and put the baby on life-support. Unless it's already a stillbirth.

If that doesn't work, caesarian. And if THAT doesn't work. ... Well, I don't know. I'll get back to you in a few years on that.

[Pnx]

Frankly even once a baby has emerged from the womb it's still less sentient (and I do mean sentient) than say... a pig (pigs are pretty intelligent creatures), and we slaughtered pigs by the millions. It seems a little two-faced to slaughter the pigs yet object when people kill off babies.

[MonkeyHead]

You... you cant be serious, right? There is a big difference between aborting a foetus, and "killing" a 9 month term viable baby. A pig will never be a person, no matter how "smart" it is.

FYI: Father of 2... Pro Choice (especially for medical reasons), but uncomfortable with the abortion of unborn babies once they come of an age/development where they could survive outside of the uterus.

[palsch]

The only serious attempt at a theory of sentience based morality I've seen has been Singer, and even he doesn't buy into it as a practical system to live by.

[SalmonGod]

I find it dangerous to identify criteria by which a human being can be described as less than a human being.

Personal anecdote:  my second child smiled at me only a few hours after being born, while gazing directly into my eyes.  Quite ironic, after we'd named him Grim.  May not have much impact on your statement, but it's a difficult experience to ignore. 

I do understand what you're saying with the comparison.  I think we have a responsibility to be humane with the animals we consume, and I think we fail pretty horribly at it these days.  I don't feel that is comparable to our responsibilities to our own species.  Key word: feel.  I understand that from a purely objective view, I have no reason to value a human being over an animal of similar intelligence.  I think it's natural to do so anyway.  I am a human being who relates to and is interdependent with other human beings more than any animal, and thus I care about them more.