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[Leafsnail]

..."One time"?  There's well over a dozen of these things.  Yeah, maybe you could screw up and sign a racist, insane newsletter once or twice by accident, but could you really do it for so long, so consistently for 8 years without even bothering to check what you were saying you were agreeing with?

I don't see why "He was a doctor" represents any kind of excuse.  Either you spend the time reading what you put your name on or you don't put your name on it.

[ECrownofFire]

..."One time"?  There's well over a dozen of these things.  Yeah, maybe you could screw up and sign a racist, insane newsletter once or twice by accident, but could you really do it for so long, so consistently for 8 years without even bothering to check what you were saying you were agreeing with?

I don't see why "He was a doctor" represents any kind of excuse.  Either you spend the time reading what you put your name on or you don't put your name on it.

He was only a publisher of it, he never "signed" it. It's the equivalent of him giving them (whoever wrote it) a blank check. That's a single mistake.

[G-Flex]

There's also the ongoing mistake of never reading the damn things they wrote in his name. That's like sending someone an entire book of blank checks, knowingly, and never bothering to see what they're doing with them for at least a decade. Even if this all boils down to him signing a really terrible contract ("sure, put my name on anything you want!"), there's still the fact that he turned a blind eye to it for so long.

[Dr.Feelgood]

(message deleted)

[G-Flex]

Why do people always attack Ron Paul for being honest, if somewhat insensitive. He just tends to exaggerate the truth. This constant political correctness and race-baiting is just a distraction from the real issues, like rampant multiculturalism and the socialization of America.

Political buzzwords aside, can you please tell me how the stuff I posted in particular counts as "the truth"? We would probably all appreciate it if you would respond to actual points presented instead of this over-arching unprovable crap. You're trying to make assertions about the general point, but you aren't responding to the evidence in question for or against that point.

Sounds like people are feigning mental illness to exploit the system. I'm glad that states are finally cutting these unnecessary social services. People are given enough opportunities to succeed, and if they fail then it shouldn't be our (or the government's) responsibility.

If you succeed in life, it isn't only because of you. A lot of support goes toward all of us to ensure that we develop as healthy individuals and productive members of society, as I've talked about before in other contexts. People on your side of the political spectrum like to pretend that your success is entirely your own doing, and that you deserve to reap as many benefits as possible from it, without realizing that you're part of a larger organism of human society and that you are obligated to it as much as it has been obligated to you for your entire life and then some.

Also, what about the actually mentally ill/handicapped, or the physically handicapped? And what about the basic fact of privilege based on socioeconomic status, race, etc., which pretty much guarantees that no, not everyone gets the same opportunities to begin with, and through no fault of their own?

[Leafsnail]

Why do people always attack Ron Paul for being honest, if somewhat insensitive. He just tends to exaggerate the truth. This constant political correctness and race-baiting is just a distraction from the real issues, like rampant multiculturalism and the socialization of America.

Last time you did this you got banned.  Just a reminder .

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Feelgood, I would recommend changing your avatar between trolling sessions, because it let me remember the death penalty thread when I saw it again.

[Bauglir]

Why do people always attack Ron Paul for being honest, if somewhat insensitive. He just tends to exaggerate the truth. This constant political correctness and race-baiting is just a distraction from the real issues, like rampant multiculturalism and the socialization of America.

First sentence contradicts second sentence. At any rate, people don't attack him for being honest (whether he is or not), people attack him because they disagree with what he's saying. Honesty is irrelevant to their motivation.

Third sentence doesn't make sense in light of what's being discussed here, given that one of the newsletters in question discussed an upcoming race war. There's a point at which it's not so much political correctness as it is basic sanity, and this is that.

And, allow me to repeat what I said before,

If I grant that he didn't read them, that's not exactly a good defense. Signing things without reading them as a matter of policy isn't exactly something I want the President to have established as a habit, y'know? It's a different problem, to be sure, but still a problem.

I agree with many of Ron Paul's ideals, and honestly find him one of the least unpalatable candidates, but that doesn't mean he has no failings. It's just that his competition is Rick Perry. That shouldn't grant immunity to criticism, and I do happen to disagree with several chunks of his platform, mostly on what the optimal role of social services is in ensuring the greatest degree of liberty, and the extent to which taxes represent a reduction in liberty.

[Nadaka]

Ron paul is by no means honest.

[atomicwinter]

Ron paul is by no means honest.

Oh really care to elaborate on Dr.Ron Paul?

[penguinofhonor]

My dad literally thinks that you should be allowed to abuse animals because you spent the money to buy them, and you should be able to do whatever you want with your money.

Like, apparently there's no middle ground of having rights between humans and a desklamp. You either get full human rights, or you have none.

/ignoring the current topic (that I seem to have started) because I have like two minutes until leaving for a family thing

[Nadaka]

He isn't a constitionalist. He isn't really a libertarian. He does not believe in religious freedom or eperation of church and state. He believes that state govornment should be allowed to violate citizens rights. Not only has he indicated this, but he has voted in that direction.

[G-Flex]

Not only has he voted in that direction, he's introduced legislation so hard in that direction it's appalling. I've mentioned it before, and will reiterate myself: Ron Paul doesn't care about the government stomping on you, he only cares that it's your state (or local) government doing it, not the federal one, and wants to explicitly allow them to get away with quite a bit of it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Although his legislation for state's rights are mostly fantasy. If he really did sign into law a bill preventing the Supreme Court from hearing cases about religion and education in the states the Supreme Court would almost certainly declare it unconstitutional at the earliest possibility. And being a federal bill, he couldn't prevent them from doing so without causing an internal government schism.

[Truean]

[/rant]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So today, I went to that soup kitchen thing for a while and actually met some of these supposedly "lazy people leeches."

Of these people, many of them have been employed for years and through putting their kids through school, caring for their parents and every other thing, just really couldn't take it when their jobs were cut. Some of them are quite nuts and we volunteers just sorta smile and nod. What the hell else can you do? 

I'm reminded of prosecutors telling the crazy people to literally line their shoes with foil as well as wear hats made out of it.... It was to block the voices, "of course." Let's face it, the prosecutor's office isn't equipped to handle these types of situations, but that crazy man swears that Bill Gates is harassing him and has invested over $100 Million to put microphones in every room everywhere. Guess who he inevitably complains to -- the police which.... Yeah. He's still trying to figure out how to eat soup with an envelope....

These services absolutely are necessary and anyone who doesn't believe they are, should be forced to look at the problem up close and not allowed to close their damn eyes before they conclude otherwise. They've never seen it and they don't care. They have a "Screw all, I'm right," attitude about it. This is wrong, categorically so.

The lovely thing that makes them wrong, is the "hurray for me and to hell with you," attitude. They don't want to pay for ANYTHING, but they want EVERYTHING. They are actually the leeches. It'd be hilarious if it weren't true. They think because they go to a job and convince someone they're working they're somehow just beyond awesome. We all know it's usually one guy carrying three others in the workplace anyhow. They don't know and they don't care how the money gets there. All they know is that they show up for work and that's it....

This generation of particularly spoiled people actually fought two wars without funding them and wonder why we're here. Imagine if we did that during world war II. It'd be considered the most unpatriotic thing.... I get so tired of people demonizing the poor when they are really no different and no better.... They're far worse in many ways.

[rant]

Ron Paul is really no different than any other American Politician. They run off slogans that mean basically nothing. This means the slogan allows the voter to fill in the blanks however they imagine. This creates the illusion that the politician is "on your side." They aren't. This is typically revealed when the specifics are....

Turns out "fiscal conservative," means anything you want it to along with "hope and change." Turns out, these phrases don't mean anything. Turns out everyone is in favor of "getting rid of government waste," but really they just mean the parts of government that don't benefit them personally and directly. Except as the Tea Party found out, it's really really hard to cut spending, because nothing stands out as blatantly "wasteful," like they said it did in their political ads. Turns out, if you cut funding there are real consequences.... Turns out, "job creators," despite having some of the lowest taxes in American History, aren't creating jobs, or, they are doing so in Communist China on the American taxpayer's dime....

When you examine the specifics about Mr. Paul, he's as bad and nonsensical as the rest.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/26/7488430-ron-paul-no-fema-response-necessary
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
http://danielmiessler.com/blog/5-ron-paul-quotes-that-scare-me
http://modeledbehavior.com/2011/12/23/what-ron-pauls-portfolio-really-tells-us/