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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 856319 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8760 on: December 23, 2011, 11:54:06 pm »

You sheeple just wait until you’re carrying soviet smartcards and cheap harmonicas, then we’ll see who’s crazy.
Yeah, those dirty soviet... wait, we get harmonicas? Sign me up!
Not only do we get harmonicas, we also get USSR-patented Anti-Radiation Vodka! Only through it can you ever hope to survive the irradiated Ukrainian wasteland.

You will, however, be killed by the mutants either way. Or perhaps by the military if the mutants don't manage.


....


Bring me back reality-defying artifacts, damnit!
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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palsch

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8761 on: December 24, 2011, 12:07:57 am »

Edit: Paul said that some of his newsletters were ghost written, so that explains some of the more "politically incorrect" statements.
What? No.

The articles were signed under Paul's name in an 8 page monthly newsletter he published, selling it for $50 a year. Even if he managed to not read the few thousand words a month he was shilling, he is fully responsible for the contents of them.

Entirely incidentally, it's long been known that Lew Rockwell was involved in the writing. The association between the two has been entirely open, although Rockwell has denied writing the articles at times. Rockwell was openly advocating a race based strategy to unite libertarians and paleoconservatives. Notably the group they founded has been frequently described as promoting neo-Confederate views.

The racist material was fairly consistent and widely known. Notably the Heritage Front - an openly neo-Nazi group that disbanded after it's members paralysed a Tamil man - included the letter on a list of public racialists. Wayback link to the archived page.

Just looking at some of the worst of those you linked;

October 1992 gives advice on how to get away with shooting "youths" who are taking part in the "hip-hop" trend of carjacking, ending with the phrase "the animals are coming."

January 1993 has a piece on "The Disappearing White Majority" which reads exactly like BNP style racial shit stirring, complete with the ending call to "save your own children".

The July 1993 edition (not on your page, but archived here by an anti-extremist group active in the early days of the web) is one of the most quoted. Notably this section;
Spoiler: "Hiding the hate." (click to show/hide)
The statistics there, recycled in the August 1993 edition, appear to be fiction created by Jared Taylor, a white supremacist author. They simply don't exist elsewhere. To get those kinds of numbers you need to deliberately manipulate the data along these lines, ignoring re-offenders and pretending each individual crime represents a unique criminal black man.

Now as for Paul being a racist... that isn't something I'd say. You can't prove what he is thinking and it derails the conversation. Instead I'd say what he said was unacceptable.

I can understand why he published it though. His newsletter was targeted at the late 80's and early 90's pseudo-libertarian right. That movement includes lots of really nasty groups, including many neo-confederates, white supremacist and militia types. He worked closely with these sorts of groups, if only because they overlapped with his part of the political spectrum. He would have known the language, the dog whistles and red meat those groups thrive on. He openly worked with similar individuals and groups, including hard-right Christian reconstructionists - eg, Gary North who was a staffer for him in Congress and came out with the perfect summary of why the reconstructionists loved the libertarians;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The fact is that Paul has often has made statements that fit such a hard Christian audience. Take his stand on the separation of church and state, or his language over abortion and gay marriage. That's because today he needs the support of the religious right to survive in the modern Republican party. In the 90's he relied on the support of the NWO conspiracy theorists and (usually racially) reactionary anti-government groups.


FAKEEDIT: Welp, serves me right for digging up my research from the 2007 primaries. Have another two links.
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8762 on: December 24, 2011, 02:21:44 am »

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/netflix-ceos-stock-options-slashed-203407361.html

So, even with the "penalty," the CEO can't lose. Netflicks screwed up terribly and it was all his fault. He basically suggested every crazy idea he could think of including splitting the country in two.... He is personally responsible for this crap and yet he just.... Really? If anyone else in that company cost it half as much as he did, or even 10% as much as he did, they'd be fired....

He's a "job creator" though. ??? huh?
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Pnx

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8763 on: December 24, 2011, 03:41:01 am »

I'm starting to suspect that considering corporations to be job creators is really complete BS.

I don't have much basis for thinking this, but I'm starting to suspect that having lots of small scale businesses rather than a few large ones would result in not just better income levels, but actually more jobs...
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RedKing

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8764 on: December 24, 2011, 06:29:18 am »

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/netflix-ceos-stock-options-slashed-203407361.html

So, even with the "penalty," the CEO can't lose. Netflicks screwed up terribly and it was all his fault. He basically suggested every crazy idea he could think of including splitting the country in two.... He is personally responsible for this crap and yet he just.... Really? If anyone else in that company cost it half as much as he did, or even 10% as much as he did, they'd be fired....

He's a "job creator" though. ??? huh?
I've probably beaten this dead horse into a leather drum by now, but.....

Hewlett-Packard.
We fired our CEO for sexual misconduct and embezzling for the company. Not only was he *not* subject to civil or criminal penalties, he got a $79 million golden parachute. Then we hired the recently-fired CEO of SAP, Leo Apotheker, and paid good money to fly him and his family over from Europe, buy him a nice new house in Cupertino, and a signing bonus. He proceeds to make a series of batshit-crazy decisions which tank the stock value to roughly 50% of what it was when he took over, and gets fired less than a year into his tenure. He then got an additional $10 million severance package, and we paid to fly his ass back to Europe and covered any losses on his house.

It's this kind of thing that has destroyed any faith I ever had in capitalism. I just want to picket Wall Street with a giant sign saying "CAPITALISM: UR DOING IT WRONG".



In happier news, the GLBT community in Minnesota formally apologized to a GOP lawmaker for ruining her marriage.
Here's how I picture it went down:

"No....I shouldnt, I'm married! But....somewhere, two nice young men are picking out a china pattern together. TAKE ME!" :P
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8765 on: December 24, 2011, 06:34:15 am »

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/netflix-ceos-stock-options-slashed-203407361.html

So, even with the "penalty," the CEO can't lose. Netflicks screwed up terribly and it was all his fault. He basically suggested every crazy idea he could think of including splitting the country in two.... He is personally responsible for this crap and yet he just.... Really? If anyone else in that company cost it half as much as he did, or even 10% as much as he did, they'd be fired....

He's a "job creator" though. ??? huh?
I've probably beaten this dead horse into a leather drum by now, but.....

Hewlett-Packard.
We fired our CEO for sexual misconduct and embezzling for the company. Not only was he *not* subject to civil or criminal penalties, he got a $79 million golden parachute. Then we hired the recently-fired CEO of SAP, Leo Apotheker, and paid good money to fly him and his family over from Europe, buy him a nice new house in Cupertino, and a signing bonus. He proceeds to make a series of batshit-crazy decisions which tank the stock value to roughly 50% of what it was when he took over, and gets fired less than a year into his tenure. He then got an additional $10 million severance package, and we paid to fly his ass back to Europe and covered any losses on his house.

It's this kind of thing that has destroyed any faith I ever had in capitalism. I just want to picket Wall Street with a giant sign saying "CAPITALISM: UR DOING IT WRONG".

I just have a hard time imagining why a company would ever agree to hire anyone with a contract stipulating that they can screw up all they like, and then get off scott free, and then be rewarded for it. What is the incentive to the company to do this?
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scriver

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8766 on: December 24, 2011, 06:57:06 am »

The company that offers the best terms get the "best" guys. What would you rather be hired by, company:
A, that gives you 80 000;
B, that gives you 100 000;
Or C, that gives you 100 000 and a reward if you screw up?

So when more and more companies offer screw up licenses to get ahead, a culture grows where you have to offer such licenses, and then it becomes part of the basic package.
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RedKing

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8767 on: December 24, 2011, 06:58:34 am »

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/netflix-ceos-stock-options-slashed-203407361.html

So, even with the "penalty," the CEO can't lose. Netflicks screwed up terribly and it was all his fault. He basically suggested every crazy idea he could think of including splitting the country in two.... He is personally responsible for this crap and yet he just.... Really? If anyone else in that company cost it half as much as he did, or even 10% as much as he did, they'd be fired....

He's a "job creator" though. ??? huh?
I've probably beaten this dead horse into a leather drum by now, but.....

Hewlett-Packard.
We fired our CEO for sexual misconduct and embezzling from the company. Not only was he *not* subject to civil or criminal penalties, he got a $79 million golden parachute. Then we hired the recently-fired CEO of SAP, Leo Apotheker, and paid good money to fly him and his family over from Europe, buy him a nice new house in Cupertino, and a signing bonus. He proceeds to make a series of batshit-crazy decisions which tank the stock value to roughly 50% of what it was when he took over, and gets fired less than a year into his tenure. He then got an additional $10 million severance package, and we paid to fly his ass back to Europe and covered any losses on his house.

It's this kind of thing that has destroyed any faith I ever had in capitalism. I just want to picket Wall Street with a giant sign saying "CAPITALISM: UR DOING IT WRONG".

I just have a hard time imagining why a company would ever agree to hire anyone with a contract stipulating that they can screw up all they like, and then get off scott free, and then be rewarded for it. What is the incentive to the company to do this?
To "attract the best talent possible", of course!  ::)
(That's the stock answer corps trot out when anyone suggests limiting CEO salaries...as if moar money = mad bidness skillz)

There was a LOT of stockholder and employee anger when Mark Hurd got that golden parachute. When HP's response was "Well, we're legally obligated to, because there wasn't a clause in the contract to deny it based on violations of company policy", the common response was, "Well fire our fucking lawyers then".

Nobody fired the lawyers. I don't even want to know what kind of golden parachute Meg Whitman has in her contract (and guess what, I *can't* know because that's confidential information...yay for non-transparency).


The company that offers the best terms get the "best" guys. What would you rather be hired by, company:
A, that gives you 80 000;
B, that gives you 100 000;
Or C, that gives you 100 000 and a reward if you screw up?

So when more and more companies offer screw up licenses to get ahead, a culture grows where you have to offer such licenses, and then it becomes part of the basic package.
80,000? 100,000? Oh, you silly Swede. Needs more zeroes. Try $8,000,000 or $10,000,000. And that's before considering the stock options, private jet and assorted benefits and perks.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 07:01:37 am by RedKing »
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8768 on: December 24, 2011, 07:03:17 am »

Personally, I'm willing to consider that he blindly put his name on bullshit he didn't actually write. However, I'm not about to assume either way, and when you put your name on something, you better make damn sure you support it.

That being said, the idea that there was nothing prejudiced/nutty in those newsletters is... well, I guess that's up to interpretation, but I don't know how to interpret it that way, that's for sure.
Ron Paul never even read the damn things for 10 years after they were published (See here)
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scriver

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8769 on: December 24, 2011, 07:06:40 am »

@RedKing -
I never declared at what per time unit rate, you know :P

But honestly they were just random numbers.
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sluissa

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8770 on: December 24, 2011, 10:54:36 am »

Personally, I'm willing to consider that he blindly put his name on bullshit he didn't actually write. However, I'm not about to assume either way, and when you put your name on something, you better make damn sure you support it.

That being said, the idea that there was nothing prejudiced/nutty in those newsletters is... well, I guess that's up to interpretation, but I don't know how to interpret it that way, that's for sure.
Ron Paul never even read the damn things for 10 years after they were published (See here)

His name was on them though. To me, essentially the same as "I'm Ron Paul and I approve this message."

Unless he can prove they were done without his consent then he's got no argument. If you let someone put your name on something, even if you didn't write it, you're at the very least implying approval, if not outright agreeing with it.

He's a nutjob, and it's just starting to come out now that people are taking a closer look at him. On the surface he looks fine. I even fell for his rhetoric for a short time back in 07-08, but any amount of research will show that most of what he proposes is silly, stupid, if not completely infeasible. That's not even touching the idea that this might all just be a show and he doesn't care one whit about state's rights and just is pushing the same old Religion + Corporate rights wagon just from a slightly different angle.

Also damn it, clean up your damn signs. We've still got Ron Paul 2008 signs stuck to poles around here.
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Bauglir

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8771 on: December 24, 2011, 10:59:08 am »

If I grant that he didn't read them, that's not exactly a good defense. Signing things without reading them as a matter of policy isn't exactly something I want the President to have established as a habit, y'know? It's a different problem, to be sure, but still a problem. Then again, ensuring we're complaining about the correct thing may have been the entire point in ECrownofFire's post.
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8772 on: December 24, 2011, 11:10:42 am »

http://news.yahoo.com/mentally-ill-flood-er-states-cut-services-131133880.html

People should be shaken out of their spoiled lives and forced to watch this happening. Americans are, on the whole, immensely spoiled and too stupid to know it. They are so used to being spoiled that they absolutely expect it as normal and believe anyone who doesn't have it as good as they do is "lazy, or something." Cheer the ill and uninsured dying at another presidential debate....

We are all, on average, a few paychecks away from homelessness. The majority of bankruptcies are filed over medical bills. (Yes, I do bankruptcies. It is unfortunately a big part of legal services now). I keep seeing people shouting at others to "get a job." When told "no one is hiring" they point out that they have seen a help wanted sign. Morons. There are tens of millions of unemployed people in the US. Compare that to the number of help wanted signs and basic math skills will tell you that there aren't enough to give even half of those people jobs, no matter what....

This in the spirit of the holidays .... has become ignorant masses pissed off at the poor for begging as they shop for presents they don't need and will forget about soon enough as the credit cards come due in January.... Meanwhile, I'll be at a soup kitchen. That dude on the cross they all worship, they wear bracelets saying WWJD.... Yeah....
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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G-Flex

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8773 on: December 24, 2011, 11:29:21 am »

Personally, I'm willing to consider that he blindly put his name on bullshit he didn't actually write. However, I'm not about to assume either way, and when you put your name on something, you better make damn sure you support it.

That being said, the idea that there was nothing prejudiced/nutty in those newsletters is... well, I guess that's up to interpretation, but I don't know how to interpret it that way, that's for sure.
Ron Paul never even read the damn things for 10 years after they were published (See here)

He's still responsible for them, and he still (presumably) made money off them. You don't put your name on something for that long and never bother to read it. Either he had his newsletter get overrun with crazies on purpose, or he turned a blind eye to it, let it happen, and put his own name on it anyway. There is no sympathetic option here for him.

Also: I love the batshit-crazy comments on the Youtube video there. Same kind of crazy as in the newsletters, apparently. I wonder what that signifies about his fanbase.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 11:32:03 am by G-Flex »
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #8774 on: December 24, 2011, 11:55:38 am »

Personally, I'm willing to consider that he blindly put his name on bullshit he didn't actually write. However, I'm not about to assume either way, and when you put your name on something, you better make damn sure you support it.

That being said, the idea that there was nothing prejudiced/nutty in those newsletters is... well, I guess that's up to interpretation, but I don't know how to interpret it that way, that's for sure.
Ron Paul never even read the damn things for 10 years after they were published (See here)

He's still responsible for them, and he still (presumably) made money off them. You don't put your name on something for that long and never bother to read it. Either he had his newsletter get overrun with crazies on purpose, or he turned a blind eye to it, let it happen, and put his own name on it anyway. There is no sympathetic option here for him.
Yeah, so he fucked up one time. Boo fucking hoo. He was a doctor at the time, and I don't think that really leaves a lot of free time. That was the first damn question of the interview that I linked.
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