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[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-feds-arpaio-violated-civil-rights-164947314.html

[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-feds-arpaio-violated-civil-rights-164947314.html

Basically, his stance really is, "if you don't speak English, then you have no rights at all." It really isn't that incredibly hard to hire some Spanish Interpreters, especially in Arizona State. Well all know that's where a ton of people who only speak Spanish are. Pretending the problem doesn't exist or just yelling at it, doesn't solve anything. If anything, it makes the problem worse.

[Virex]

Yeah, it does, absolutely.  I think that there's some things that are painful because that's the nature of the thing, and that should be pathologized (cf: depression), and there are some things that are painful largely because the environment conspires to make it so.  Previous example: homosexuality.  There doesn't seem to be anything inherently bad about autism.  There are people on the really low end of the spectrum who can't stop hurting themselves, and I don't know what to do about that, or fully understand all of the interactions between them and society.  But I do think that looking for environmental triggers in the child's environment is in general a better idea than what's been happening, and I really do wonder if a lot of this is a sort of "cultural misunderstanding."

Why would depression need to be pathologized? People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

[Necro910]

Yeah, it does, absolutely.  I think that there's some things that are painful because that's the nature of the thing, and that should be pathologized (cf: depression), and there are some things that are painful largely because the environment conspires to make it so.  Previous example: homosexuality.  There doesn't seem to be anything inherently bad about autism.  There are people on the really low end of the spectrum who can't stop hurting themselves, and I don't know what to do about that, or fully understand all of the interactions between them and society.  But I do think that looking for environmental triggers in the child's environment is in general a better idea than what's been happening, and I really do wonder if a lot of this is a sort of "cultural misunderstanding."

Why would depression need to be pathologized? People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

Because noncattle are evil, sick people that need to be reeducated 

[ChairmanPoo]

People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

People suffering of endogenous depression have a tendence to kill themselves and sometimes their close of kin. Really, you're carrying this argument to absurd extremes.

I agree that Asperger's likely an overdiagnosed condition, and I don't know to what extent there is a point - perhaps it would be better to address problems as they emerge -as it is done, in practice, as far as I know- because there is little else to do. But it's undeniable that autism as a whole is linked to severe disabilities. And even Asperger's sufferers have many problems.

[Virex]

People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

People suffering of endogenous depression have a tendence to kill themselves and sometimes their close of kin. Really, you're carrying this argument to absurd extremes.

Why would it be wrong for someone to value their own life in a different way? It's their life, we have no business telling them what to do with it. Besides, not all depressed people are violent criminals and I find it highly offensive to drag that into the discussion.

[Truean]

Nihilism and skepticism can be taken a bit too far. Something that makes the person suffering from it wind up dead is not the same as autism. Let's not....

Why would it be wrong for someone to value their own life in a different way? It's their life, we have no business telling them what to do with it. Besides, not all depressed people are violent criminals and I find it highly offensive to drag that into the discussion.

Also the virtues of suicide, really?

[EveryZig]

Yeah, basically there are a ton of poor, near poor, or otherwise-getting-seriously-screwed working class people, who can't or won't admit what's being done to them. Factually, real wages have shrunk, the cost of living has gone up, pensions have vanished or decreased, and everything has basically gone to shit in the last 30 or 40 years for them. Those of them who support the rich who are screwing them basically suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

"Fortunately there are not enough men of property in America to dictate policy."
"Perhaps not. But don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor."
-from the play '1776'
(Interestingly enough, Nixon originally had the song those lines came from removed from the play.)


About deafness, both deafness and autism can cause problems, but I feel that there is a fundamental difference between them in that deafness, unlike autism, is a matter of sensory input, and can (theoretically) be resolved without changing actual thought processes.

[Vector]

@G-Flex: I may have been totally misunderstanding you through time, then, for which I'm sorry.  And yeah, I started thinking it might have been a problem with definitions near the end, there.  In any case, I'm not sure if it is the "autism" that is problematic, or some other thing that interacts poorly with autism.  It's a thing that I think will come out more with time.

I'll try harder to assume that you're arguing in good faith.

[scriver]

Why would depression need to be pathologized? People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

Because people with depression are, constantly or for long recurrent periods of time, really fucking miserable. That's the definition.  It has nothing to do with any "happyness culture". I suggest you read up on depression and it's symptoms and rethink that "theory" of yours, because writing off and belittling a serious issue like that is demeaning to people who actually suffers from depression.

[Gunner-Chan]

Because people with depression are, constantly or for long recurrent periods of time, really fucking miserable. That's the definition.  It has nothing to do with any "happyness culture". I suggest you read up on depression and it's symptoms and rethink that "theory" of yours, because writing off and belittling a serious issue like that is demeaning to people who actually suffers from depression.

Yup. Definitely is. I still struggle with it after years and years. Simply put actually having depression isn't something you just "Get over". Being depressed is. And that's a totally different thing, one is a mood and another is a change in the function of the brain.

Even so, I don't really see anything wrong with having a pathological issue with myself. It does make me different, but the only people that would bother to belittle me based on that aren't the kind of people I'd care to listen to anyway.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

Why would depression need to be pathologized? People with depressions may think differently than autistic people and self-identified 'neurologically superior' people, but how much of their 'problems' are really due to society forcing a perverted 'happiness culture' upon people that just donīt think that way?

Because people with depression are, constantly or for long recurrent periods of time, really fucking miserable. That's the definition.  It has nothing to do with any "happyness culture". I suggest you read up on depression and it's symptoms and rethink that "theory" of yours, because writing off and belittling a serious issue like that is demeaning to people who actually suffers from depression.

Absolutely. Virex, I have bipolar disorder, and have had depression in one form or another my entire adult life. It's definitely a medical condition, and depression sufferers have enough to put up with without people like you coming out with bullshit theories like the one above.

[Vector]

Yeah, I've spent long periods (years!) being morose, pissy, or generally chronically unhappy/just not all that happy, but I've got to say... I only had depression depression really once, not even that badly compared to what I hear from other people, and they were hands down the most miserable, horrible periods I've ever had in my life.  Real depression is no joke.  Being unhappy for long periods of time is no joke either, but grieving or being sad... often those things aren't the same thing as depression.

I realize that I may be playing a bit fast and loose with clinical terminology here, but what I'm trying to say is this: I've spent most of my life kind of unhappy about various things, dissatisfied with life, probably depressed by "happy culture" standards, and I don't call that a problem in this same way.  There was one time that was horrible, though, and to compare the two as equals feels absurd.

[GlyphGryph]

What's funny is that when I'm going through one of my depressive cycles, I don't even feel sad. It's always confused me to see people conflate the two.

It's like... it's like being miserable, and not understanding why. Your brain will try to rationalize it, of course (you can stop it with some effort and enough recognition of the patterns forming), but all the rationalizing does is make you more miserable by putting reasons to be miserable right on top of already being terribly miserable for no reason at all.

Even assuming you get to the point where I have and you can almost always stop the horror of the depressive rationalization cycle, it doesn't do a thing to stop the actual depression. You just get the fun of watching yourself self-destruct for absolutely no reason at all. :/

[Virex]

Yes, I understand that depression means, as someone called it, being fucking miserable (and apathetic), but that is no reason to treat people who are diagnosed with it as if there's something wrong with them. That only causes more problems because, as you said, 'happy culture' is causing people diagnosed with depression to hate themselves for not being able to live up to the standards being imposed on them, on top of the natural effects of the altered neurological structure. People diagnosed with depression should be considered people, not things that have to be shot full of medicines so they can live up to the standards of neurotypical chauvinists.