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[kaijyuu]

Just when the father wanted to have no responsibility or rights.

The original problem is men have to deal with "you had sex so suck it up and be a parent" and no avenue to escape that, while women do have an option to avoid the responsibility of parenthood (abortion). The idea is to give men the same option and figure out how to not screw over the woman (at least not more than they are now).

My original proposal would also include deceased/incapacitated parents of either gender, too. Single parenting sucks. (EDIT: The more I think about this line the more it looks to me like I'm trying to smooth things over with a more moderate proposal attached to my radical one. Ignore it; there's already stuff in place to help those people, and though it could be better, that's irrelevant to the points at hand)

[shadenight123]

i wasn't referring to abortion decided by the father.
with that i am okay with the decision of the judge, it's the mothers decision.

the problem lies in the fact that the children will mostly likely be supported by the family of the girl, and the family of the girl does not want to even have something to do with the boy.
the boy on the other hand wants to grab on the father role just for the easy money, since if he were to pull off a marriage once the girls gets of major age, he wouldn't need to work anymore.

the sad fact is that the baby in this situation is but a tool. Which WILL end badly, one way or another.

i have another case on which i base this answer, mind you.
here were i live (savona, the lovely town next to the port, where you must bow to the Orsero or die in a horrible fire), there was this girl who ended up pregnant at sixteen too, but this time around, she didn't want to keep the baby but the mother wanted to. Being an owner of a chemist shop, and a chemist herself (here in italy OWNERS earn a lot of money, mind you) she could easily have the money needed to keep up the baby.
The baby too was, by the way, with an albanian father. so this girl gave birth to the baby (a girl)
years later, no marriage (heck, they left each other and the father doesn't even care for the daughter), the mother goes partying on saturdays night getting drunk and sleeping days. (how she pulled off the chemist degree, which my mother had to study hard to get is a mistery, but money greases many palms it seems) and what is the usual day? the girl goes to school in the morning and comes back in the afternoon. she goes by foot or bus. she is 6-7 years old.
she does her homework and cares for the mother.
one day, the mother got back drunk, and fell asleep on the sofa, (this is all data which my mother eavesdropped during one of her hours of work in the chemist shops she worked in), (eavesdropping not even much, since they were yelling it all around the shop), and the daughter tried to wake her up for work...but she couldn't manage.
imagine a six years old trying to wake up her mother because she has to go to work. But can't.
she even prepares her own and her mothers breakfast, the poor girl. when the mother finally woke up (it was a saturday) she yelled at the daughter, hit her, and then gave all the fault to her for not waking her up.
...

[Sheb]

So yeah, terrible parents exist. Your point?

(Also, could you please use caps?)

[shadenight123]

I hate caps.

my point is: usually when this sort of situation arises, it's more of a psychiatrical problem than a real "i want to have a baby and keep it".
Divorced family, need of affection, i could name a lot of stuff which could answer that.
But then the one who actually suffers it is the baby.
I'm sure it's going to be nice growing up knowing your grandfather and grandmother hated the guts out of your father who was an horrible person who knocked mommy up for no reason, and was a violent person. yet mommy loved him! sheesh, i can't even try and write like a complexed child like that.
seriously, they should define clearer laws, and psychiatric help.
Don't take it too much on the extreme version of the psychiatric term however, i'm not saying they should drug her over to make her happy. I'm saying talking with a specialist on the matter (instead of a judge) and doing what is better, not what the law states is right or wrong.

[Andir]

Just when the father wanted to have no responsibility or rights.

The original problem is men have to deal with "you had sex so suck it up and be a parent" and no avenue to escape that, while women do have an option to avoid the responsibility of parenthood (abortion). The idea is to give men the same option and figure out how to not screw over the woman (at least not more than they are now).

My original proposal would also include deceased/incapacitated parents of either gender, too. Single parenting sucks. (EDIT: The more I think about this line the more it looks to me like I'm trying to smooth things over with a more moderate proposal attached to my radical one. Ignore it; there's already stuff in place to help those people, and though it could be better, that's irrelevant to the points at hand)

But it sets a precedent where men can just say, "Screw you woman! The government pays for it."  Some women may even prefer to have the government pay for their child instead of having a husband.  It could delegate men to sperm farmers.

I hate caps.

... but you used them multiple times... I think you just "hate" having to use proper grammar. /rant

[shadenight123]

Could be grammar too. I just write as if i were actually speaking to someone, so i tend to not care much about caps. I will put stops or commas randomly to make people think i am taking care of grammar (but that isn't trueee) *whisper*
/no offense taken

[Andir]

/no offense taken

Thanks, it's early and I imagine that could have sounded like I was angered.  I meant no offense.

[shadenight123]

/no offense taken

Thanks, it's early and I imagine that could have sounded like I was angered.  I meant no offense.

No probs. being in italy from the future i understand your rage at the upcoming future hours you still have to live.
Not going to spoiler them though.

[scriver]

It could delegate men to sperm farmers.

This is a ridiculously farfetched conclusion to jump to.

[kaijyuu]

But it sets a precedent where men can just say, "Screw you woman! The government pays for it."

Yeah that's the point. People who go up to a women wanting to avoid the responsibility of parenthood (through abortion or adoption) and say "you had sex so deal with the consequences" are pretty monstrous. Yet people can go up to a man and say the same thing? Doesn't follow. The aim would be to fix that by giving fathers similar options.

Some women may even prefer to have the government pay for their child instead of having a husband.

They would have absolutely zero say in whether the father gives up his rights or not.

It could delegate men to sperm farmers.

What.

[G-Flex]

Sperm farming aside (what's the right season for that harvest, anyway?):

Now that Newt Gingrich is successfully shooting himself in the foot, where is the Republican nomination heading? Cain's out, and Rick Perry has shot off most of his leg, so...

[Heron TSG]

Probably towards Mitt "Opinion Waffling" Romney.

[scriver]

Romney is my favourite Republican, because I heard he did something public healthcare somehow as a senator, and because he's just so damn handsome. He looks like a Hollywood President, dammit.

[kaijyuu]

Sperm farming aside (what's the right season for that harvest, anyway?)

Isn't spring the season for love?



And yeah Mitt Romney seems most likely. Most the crap thrown at him seems to be about his religion instead of something relevant. Still probably (certainly? I don't follow this stuff closely) homophobic and whatnot, but at least he didn't put out an ad about gays in the military and lies about prayer in public school.

[G-Flex]

Romney is my favourite Republican, because I heard he did something public healthcare somehow as a senator, and because he's just so damn handsome. He looks like a Hollywood President, dammit.

So he's your favorite because of 1) one particular thing you heard he did this one time, somehow, and 2) because he looks good. If you don't live in the US, I suggest moving here immediately. You'd fit right into our current level of political discourse.

And yeah Mitt Romney seems most likely. Most the crap thrown at him seems to be about his religion instead of something relevant. Still probably (certainly? I don't follow this stuff closely) homophobic and whatnot, but at least he didn't put out an ad about gays in the military and lies about prayer in public school.

Literally any Republican candidate has to be homophobic in some way. I still get the feeling that nobody really likes Mitt Romney, because of his (perceived) inconsistent record, mostly. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but it'll be interesting to see.