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[Luke_Prowler]

Cript, I provided you with two. What's your problem, exactly?

I don't actually read your posts when I am not interested in them.

How mature.

Now, an aspect we have not discussed is the war on drugs as a tool : It destabilize a lot of countries and allow for a sever repression of a whole part of the population. A policy that throw one per cent of US population in prison may be intended to act that way. I cannot help but notice that it was instigated as a tool of repression against the hippy movement, too.

It is, Imo, the most important aspect of the war on drug : a powerful tool of oppression for the right-wing establishment.

Considering the damage the Mexican Drug War has done to the country and it's people, I can't really see it as a "tool of oppression"

[DJ]

OK, I confess, I just copy pasted the link from the Wikipedia article's sources list. I've seen some documentary that said that LSD isn't physically addictive at all, and for the life of me I couldn't remember it's name so I just googled up something.

[Andir]

You can't just say "Oh, three Oakland players all tested positive for banned susbstances, so the entire Raiders franchise is banned from the NFL this season."

Technically, you can.  (it would be like Toady closing this thread for a week.)  It would definitely put pressure on the owners to do proper testing.  Monetary pressures aside, the similarities are there.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the monetary aspect of it.  I'm simply referring to the comparison symbolically.  Obviously we don't get paid to post the most entertaining things to keep visitors coming back.  (I hope you weren't trying to imply that I was saying that?)  There are forums that encourage such things to keep hits high and ad revenue coming in.  I don't believe I need to point out these.  I'm sure you can come up with a few examples yourself.  My post simply stated that if the leagues and owners wanted to limit the use of steroids, there's a simple solution.

(Oh, and "regulators", being the league commissioners, etc.  The ones making the rules.)

[RedKing]

You can't just say "Oh, three Oakland players all tested positive for banned susbstances, so the entire Raiders franchise is banned from the NFL this season."

Technically, you can.  (it would be like Toady closing this thread for a week.)  It would definitely put pressure on the owners to do proper testing.  Monetary pressures aside, the similarities are there.

....do you even follow sports? 
1. There would be lawsuits the likes of which God himself has never seen. Restraint of trade, breach of contract in about half a dozen different ways, etc.
2. The owners *are* the league. They're not going to demolish one of their own, because it sets a precedent.
3. Sheerly from a pragmatism aspect, the disruption in scheduling and parity created by removing an entire team would make this a "nuclear option".

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the monetary aspect of it.  I'm simply referring to the comparison symbolically.

And therein missing the point that sports are a BUSINESS. And a rather large one at that.

Obviously we don't get paid to post the most entertaining things to keep visitors coming back.  (I hope you weren't trying to imply that I was saying that?)  There are forums that encourage such things to keep hits high and ad revenue coming in.  I don't believe I need to point out these.  I'm sure you can come up with a few examples yourself.

No, actually I can't. Please enlighten me. I'd love to see a forum that pays people to post, cause I can always use a few extra bucks. If there were any place where I'd expect the "post whatever crazy-ass shit you want, we're trying to attract viewers", it'd be YouTube or 4chan. And last I checked, neither paid people for their posts.

My post simply stated that if the leagues and owners wanted to limit the use of steroids, there's a simple solution.
(Oh, and "regulators", being the league commissioners, etc.  The ones making the rules.)

That's like saying "Feeding everyone in the world is easy. Just give people the food they need." Simple in concept, nightmarish in the execution.
And see point #2 above. The league is essentially a self-regulating industry. Which has totally worked in every other industry and never leads to deceit and non-regulation in the name of profit*.


A better analogy would be something along the lines of "Getting rid of corporate malfeasance ie easy. Just delist from the stock exchanges any company found guilty of fraud, negligence or illegal behavior." There's a certain justice to it, but the unintended consequences are massive, the "ease" of the action is in fact terribly difficult, and the number of innocent people punished along with the guilty make it indefensible.

*Actual results may vary, including oil spill disasters, mining disasters and food products barely fit for human consumption.

[Criptfeind]

OK, I confess, I just copy pasted the link from the Wikipedia article's sources list. I've seen some documentary that said that LSD isn't physically addictive at all, and for the life of me I couldn't remember it's name so I just googled up something.

That is not actually the point, the thing I was trying to find was that burgers were addictive. LSD is of course. Not. Physically at least.

[GlyphGryph]

Having some difficulty parsing that sentence.

[Andir]

I'd love to see a forum that pays people to post, cause I can always use a few extra bucks. If there were any place where I'd expect the "post whatever crazy-ass shit you want, we're trying to attract viewers", it'd be YouTube or 4chan. And last I checked, neither paid people for their posts.

Did I say they paid people to post?

[Phmcw]

Considering the damage the Mexican Drug War has done to the country and it's people, I can't really see it as a "tool of oppression"

How so? It prove that drug trafficking can ruin a society, and the traffic of drug is currently destabilizing a lot of south American countries.
South America has been a battlefield between USSR backed communists and USA backed Fascists and drug money was used as funding by both. The ties between the cartels and the CIA are a badly kept secret, and the war on drug was used as an excuse.

    The "war on drugs" is simply a propaganda ploy, a legitimizing story for the American public. We were briefed by the Public Affairs Officers that counter-narcotics was a cover story for curious journalists, friends, and family that our mission, in fact, was to further develop Colombians' capacity for counterinsurgency operations
    —Stan Goff, retired U.S. Army Special Forces officer and former military advisor to Colombia

For instance, to help quashing drug funded rebellion.

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/webb.html http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

To fund illegal programs of the CIA.

And there is also the infamous case of Italy, where the CIA allegedly helped the Mafia's drug trafficking operation in exchange for it's support against the communist party.

More recently, the rise in Afghanistan's production of heroin hint at who are your allies in the fight against the Talibans.

[Criptfeind]

Having some difficulty parsing that sentence.

Which one?

[zchris13]

And there is also the infamous case of Italy, where the CIA allegedly helped the Mafia's drug trafficking operation in exchange for it's support against the communist party.

Yeah but that's communism. Everybody hates communism.

[Willfor]

No, actually I can't. Please enlighten me. I'd love to see a forum that pays people to post, cause I can always use a few extra bucks. If there were any place where I'd expect the "post whatever crazy-ass shit you want, we're trying to attract viewers", it'd be YouTube or 4chan. And last I checked, neither paid people for their posts.

YouTube pays qualifying accounts for the ad revenue they generate*. These accounts are under greater scrutiny though on what they're allowed to post since they are monetizing their uploads.

* Those who apply for this status anyway.

[GlyphGryph]

LSD is of course. Not. Physically at least.

That one.

[RedKing]

I'd love to see a forum that pays people to post, cause I can always use a few extra bucks. If there were any place where I'd expect the "post whatever crazy-ass shit you want, we're trying to attract viewers", it'd be YouTube or 4chan. And last I checked, neither paid people for their posts.

Did I say they paid people to post?

Obviously we don't get paid to post the most entertaining things to keep visitors coming back.  (I hope you weren't trying to imply that I was saying that?)  There are forums that encourage such things to keep hits high and ad revenue coming in.  I don't believe I need to point out these.  I'm sure you can come up with a few examples yourself.

Perhaps you should define "such things". Because yeah...otherwise it looks like that's what you're saying.

No, actually I can't. Please enlighten me. I'd love to see a forum that pays people to post, cause I can always use a few extra bucks. If there were any place where I'd expect the "post whatever crazy-ass shit you want, we're trying to attract viewers", it'd be YouTube or 4chan. And last I checked, neither paid people for their posts.

YouTube pays qualifying accounts for the ad revenue they generate*. These accounts are under greater scrutiny though on what they're allowed to post since they are monetizing their uploads.

* Those who apply for this status anyway.

Aha! See, I stand corrected in part. Now Andir -- without the threat of say, government-levied fines for copyright infringement or obscene material, why on Earth would YouTube ever block anything those people put up, if they're generating massive hits?

[Willfor]

Since being paid for YouTube content has been brought up, I just want to bring up the anecdote one of my teachers had when Rebecca Black was brought up. If you look at the amount of hits that the hate surrounding Rebecca Black brought up, and you factor in that the people who own the rights to that song right now are getting paid for all of those hits, you come to realize that you can monetize internet hate. In fact, it may be even more profitable to be hated on the internet than to be loved. If the site you are being hosted on is paying you for what amounts to a DDOS worth of hits, and every hit works out to a percentage of a cent, that's still an assload of money being made.

The trolls were, in essence, being trolled. For all of the hatred that was being thrown around, everyone who clicked that link gave money to it in some way.

[Virex]

Yes but just like the EXACT same study that said that 50% of ALL women in the USA were raped. It is all about how you ask the questions and how you define your terms.

What the measure of harm is is one of them for example.

Did you just try to trivialize rape?


Anyway, while LSD may technically not be physically addictive, one still has to take psychological addiction into account, which is not something trivial. Also, considering the pervasiveness of the tobacco lobby, I don't like the prospect of megacorporations getting a carte blanch to produce substances with the express goal of making people addicted to them. One could of course argue that only non-addictive drugs should be legalized, but the companies will always push the boarders on that AND that doesn't solve drug problems at all (if legalizing some drugs would work, legalizing alcohol, tobacco and weed would kill the drug cartels. Any Dutchmen can tell you that's not the case).