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[Nadaka]

What I got from the debate:

I liked Ron Paul the most (but that is probably a detriment in the republican party), though he has a couple really REALLY critical flaws that didn't get shown today.
Second is Huntsman, but I fear that is mostly because I still have not had the chance to hear him say as much crazy stuff as the rest of the candidates.
I still don't see anyone who will be a likely improvement over Obama.

Anyone know anything about what the reform and green parties are doing?

[Criptfeind]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/rick-perry-signs-controversial-anti-gay-marriage-pledge-160701631.html

I just.... I can't say anything nice about Rick Perry.... Not a thing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Among other things, signers "solemnly vow" to uphold the legal definition of marriage as between one man and one woman, remain faithful to their spouses and appoint "faithful constitutionalists" to the federal bench.

The pledge also calls on signers to back a federal marriage amendment to the Constitution and roll back what the group believes are "anti-marriage" provisions in divorce, tax and welfare laws. Signers also vow to reject Islamic sharia law and to oppose pornography.

Wow. That's a lot of dick moves in one act.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I cannot fucking believe I am going to have to vote for four more years of Obama to avoid the GOP gaining power.

[Nadaka]

I cannot fucking believe I am going to have to vote for four more years of Obama to avoid the GOP gaining power.

That is pretty close to how I feel actually. I was reluctantly hopeful when Obama got elected, but have been disappointed by his actual performance.

[ECrownofFire]

Personally I think Ron Paul would be better than Obama. If only for the Defense cuts. Seriously, why the fuck would you NOT cut it?

By the way, the guy's pledged to only accept the average income of a US citizen as Presidential pay (basically refusing to take about 90% of it). And it's no gimmick either, he's actually worth a lot less than most politicians at about $3-5 million. He already returns a big amount of his congressional pay too.

Still rather have someone like Gary Johnson, but he's not really likely at this point. (On a related note, he's filed to the FEC and FCC for exclusion from the debate).

[SalmonGod]

While I may disagree with Ron Paul about many things, I also respect him more than anybody else in federal government right now.  He shows integrity, at least.  If he got elected, I would expect him to strike a reasonable balance between sticking to his promises and making decisions informed by the situation rather than dogma.

[Heron TSG]

I'll probably vote for Obama in the hope that he'll keep doing what he's now doing - growing a spine. He's promised to let the Bush tax cuts expire if at all possible, and veto any legislature congress makes to remove the effect of the Supercommittee's failure to make a meaningful decision. He's going to try to get them to stop bickering, and if that means cutting defense, so be it. (Finally, they cut some of that huge, overblown budget!) The lower funding for healthcare sucks, but at least it means they'll have to figure out how to be a lot more efficient while not losing too many functions.

[ECrownofFire]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2011/11/christian_theocracy_how_newt_gingrich_and_the_gop_would_abolish_courts_and_legislate_morality_.html

Ron Paul stands alone against the theocracy of the Republican Party.

[G-Flex]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2011/11/christian_theocracy_how_newt_gingrich_and_the_gop_would_abolish_courts_and_legislate_morality_.html

Ron Paul stands alone against the theocracy of the Republican Party.

Because Ron Paul supporting states' rights to, say, ban atheists from public office, is definitely not support of theocracy at all.

Ron Paul talks a lot of seemingly-good talk because he'll say things most politicians won't, because he doesn't care much for improving his position or anything like that. However, if you look at his actual history and policies, he just gets sort of... distasteful.

[GlyphGryph]

Because Ron Paul supporting states' rights to, say, ban atheists from public office, is definitely not support of theocracy at all.

He's got his principles and sticks to them. He's a big believer in a vast number of things being outside federal jurisdiction, and honestly? How a state government sets up its governmental structure is probably high on the list of things it's not the feds job to mess with, as far as he's concerned.

[kaijyuu]

Let me get this straight:

1) Ron Paul supports states setting up their government however they like.
2) Said states might institute theocratic stuff.
C) Ron Paul supports theocracy?

Sounds pretty fallacious to me, unless there's some information I'm missing. If I support someone having freedom, and they then abuse said freedom, it doesn't mean I support their abuse of said freedom.

[Heron TSG]

Amongst the Republicans, Paul or Romney seem to the the least batshit insane. How's Romney's stance on that theocracy thing? He seemed to be a bit more liberal than the others on that. Then again, his Mormonism might be a blessing here. He can't (expect to successfully) go for the 'Everyone follow my religion!' route, because his religion is a small minority, IIRC.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I seriously question Romney's ability to govern in light of his Mormonism. I am...not a fan of the LDS Church and its member's activities, to say the least.

[kaijyuu]

Curious as to your opinion on them, as I live in Utah and am an ex-member.

I despise their anti-homosexual (and anti-sex in general) agenda but don't really have a problem with them or their doctrine otherwise.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Curious as to your opinion on them, as I live in Utah and am an ex-member.

Not really relevant to the thread, and would probably draw Vector's ire. Suffice it to say that I hold somewhat of a standing grudge against Mormonism.