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[MetalSlimeHunt]

And anyway, it's easy to solve: just take off your phone batteries before doing anything bad, or leave it behind. It's already something we activists normally do.

While that erases proof, having someone else carry your phone doesn't just erase the proof, it provides contradictory proof speaking to your innocence. It's not hard to see which of the two you would rather have in court.

[Glowcat]

And anyway, it's easy to solve: just take off your phone batteries before doing anything bad, or leave it behind. It's already something we activists normally do.

While that erases proof, having someone else carry your phone doesn't just erase the proof, it provides contradictory proof speaking to your innocence. It's not hard to see which of the two you would rather have in court.

Option B) Tape the cellphone to your dog.

[RedKing]

And anyway, it's easy to solve: just take off your phone batteries before doing anything bad, or leave it behind. It's already something we activists normally do.

While that erases proof, having someone else carry your phone doesn't just erase the proof, it provides contradictory proof speaking to your innocence. It's not hard to see which of the two you would rather have in court.

I wouldn't go quite that far. The defense will certainly introduce it as supporting evidence, but without any sort of corroborating evidence (i.e. witnesses who actually saw the defendant at the same time/place as the phone) it's not likely to hold much water. The prosecution will simply say, "He gave his phone to somebody else to carry while he robbed the store."

Mobile tracking, along with pen registers, is more useful in determining patterns of association than it is with establishing time/date location with regards to a single incident. Once they know who you're meeting with, it's easier to determine if you're part of an organization (criminal or otherwise) and thus opens up avenues of investigation.*

*I neither confirm nor deny my involvement in any use of mobile tracking or pen registers pursuant to a Federal investigation. In the words of Sgt. Schultz, "I know nuzzing!"

[sluissa]

Meanwhile, in the wonderful public school system...

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-transgender-student-suspended-for-using-wrong-bathroom-20111117,0,5958937.story

Poudre School District Board of Education President Nancy Tellez says the staff bathrooms provide an equal opportunity for transgender students to use any of the seven staff bathrooms spread throughout the school.

Sounds a little... familiar...

I get it, I think it sucks, but on a side note, public school bathrooms are absolutely horrendous. If I'd been given a chance to use the staff bathrooms, I probably would have taken it.

EDIT: fixed screwed up quote tags, content not changed.

[Truean]

Meanwhile, in the wonderful public school system...

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-transgender-student-suspended-for-using-wrong-bathroom-20111117,0,5958937.story

Poudre School District Board of Education President Nancy Tellez says the staff bathrooms provide an equal opportunity for transgender students to use any of the seven staff bathrooms spread throughout the school.

Sounds a little... familiar...

I get it, I think it sucks, but on a side note, public school bathrooms are absolutely horrendous. If I'd been given a chance to use the staff bathrooms, I probably would have taken it.

Yeah, this is a problem. Transgenders are basically screwed in public. We really have no good options and this is yet another reason I just stay home. Heaven forbid I have to freaking pee....

Unfortunately there are urban legends about how some jerk throws on a dress to get into the ladies' room and do terrible things.... These are largely unfounded, though there might be one or two examples. Searching Ohio Casemaker (a legal search engine used by attorneys to look up cases) revealed not a damn case of criminal charges in the State of Ohio for this.

If I am in a dress, I am not going into a men's room for what should be obvious reasons. I don't want to get beaten the shit out of, which is certainly possible. I don't want to get embarrassed and outed, which is absolutely certain as an understatement.

This could all be avoided if society actually just, I dunno, wasn't a giant jerk about transgender people, actually accepted us (NOT lip service), and just issued you something so simple as a piece of paper saying you really are trans. Problem solved. If you are serious about becoming a female, you actually have no choice but to do some horrible torture called a "real life test." It is supposed to be designed to see if you could actually live as a woman for a year, and it's bullshit, because it doesn't test that. Rather it tests if you can live as a guy in drag for a year straight, which in our society, you really can't. It's a great way to lose nearly all of your friends and business contacts. Hearing, "O if they leave they were never your friends anyhow," does not help and isn't true anyhow. They were perfectly fine with me, except for that part they figured out I was trans.

Welcome to a slight hint of my nightmare.

[Virex]

If I am in a dress, I am not going into a men's room for what should be obvious reasons. I don't want to get beaten the shit out of, which is certainly possible. I don't want to get embarrassed and outed, which is absolutely certain as an understatement.

This could all be avoided if society actually just, I dunno, wasn't a giant jerk about transgender people, actually accepted us (NOT lip service), and just issued you something so simple as a piece of paper saying you really are trans. Problem solved. If you are serious about becoming a female, you actually have no choice but to do some horrible torture called a "real life test." It is supposed to be designed to see if you could actually live as a woman for a year, and it's bullshit, because it doesn't test that. Rather it tests if you can live as a guy in drag for a year straight, which in our society, you really can't. It's a great way to lose nearly all of your friends and business contacts. Hearing, "O if they leave they were never your friends anyhow," does not help and isn't true anyhow. They were perfectly fine with me, except for that part they figured out I was trans.

Welcome to a slight hint of my nightmare.

I'm sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but a 'declaration of transness' would creep me out more than a doctor talking about organ trade while he's operating on me...

[scriver]

Option B) Tape the cellphone to your dog.

Instant beastiality charge

[Truean]

If I am in a dress, I am not going into a men's room for what should be obvious reasons. I don't want to get beaten the shit out of, which is certainly possible. I don't want to get embarrassed and outed, which is absolutely certain as an understatement.

This could all be avoided if society actually just, I dunno, wasn't a giant jerk about transgender people, actually accepted us (NOT lip service), and just issued you something so simple as a piece of paper saying you really are trans. Problem solved. If you are serious about becoming a female, you actually have no choice but to do some horrible torture called a "real life test." It is supposed to be designed to see if you could actually live as a woman for a year, and it's bullshit, because it doesn't test that. Rather it tests if you can live as a guy in drag for a year straight, which in our society, you really can't. It's a great way to lose nearly all of your friends and business contacts. Hearing, "O if they leave they were never your friends anyhow," does not help and isn't true anyhow. They were perfectly fine with me, except for that part they figured out I was trans.

Welcome to a slight hint of my nightmare.

I'm sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but a 'declaration of transness' would creep me out more than a doctor talking about organ trade while he's operating on me...

... ? Wow, thank you so much for that.... What does an actual person who is transsexual make you feel if a piece of paper creeps you out that much...?

[Virex]

No it's the idea of stigmatizing people that differ from the norm by giving them a piece of paper to carry around that scares me. Because the next thing is of course central registration to make some things easier and the next thing that people are going to use it to exclude transgendered people instead of understand their situation. And I don't want to be part of a world where people like you have to go around wearing a patch saying "trans" on their clothes.

[Nadaka]

I am pretty sure you misinterpreted him. Since he mentioned godwin's law. I think he is creeped out by official identification of a trans person by its similarity to how Jews were forced to wear the star of David in Nazi germany.

[Truean]

No it's the idea of stigmatizing people that differ from the norm by giving them a piece of paper to carry around that scares me. Because the next thing is of course central registration to make some things easier and the next thing that people are going to use it to exclude transgendered people instead of understand their situation. And I don't want to be part of a world where people like you have to go around wearing a patch saying "trans" on their clothes.

I think the idea was to present an solution whereby ideally: a.) the prejudice was removed (I know, not gonna happen unfortunately), and b.) I'd have it and people would just chill out about me being female.

Unfortunately, I realize that's not going to happen, because "point a" above isn't going to happen. That prejudice is sadly here to stay. I fully agree that it would never work in reality, due to that prejudice. That's kind of the point and the problem.

Edit:

I am pretty sure you misinterpreted him. Since he mentioned godwin's law. I think he is creeped out by official identification of a trans person by its similarity to how Jews were forced to wear the star of David in Nazi germany.

Yup, I figured that after the fact. I reserved judgment partially because he's from the Netherlands and there might also be a language barrier. I had the same misunderstanding with squio, who is also from there. I've learned to chill out and give benefits of doubts in that situation and try not to assume right away in those situations.

[Virex]

If a.) and b.) happen, why would you still need the vignette?

I am pretty sure you misinterpreted him. Since he mentioned godwin's law. I think he is creeped out by official identification of a trans person by its similarity to how Jews were forced to wear the star of David in Nazi germany.

This. We Dutch helped the Nazis eradicate nearly all of the Jews in our country. I don't want to be responsible for the same happening to other groups as well.

[Truean]

If a.) and b.) happen, why would you still need the vignette?

Unfortunately there really are "vingettes," or documentation that you are trans and transitioning. It's part of what they make you do when following the medical guidelines.

TV shows make it look like it happens overnight or something. It's a gradual process that they make take years.

[scriver]

There's a big difference between a nazi jew-star or gay-triangle and a hypothetical "certification of transness", that also would be volontary to carry, you can show people so they don't freak out when an apparant man steps into the womens' toilet. Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I don't want that to be necessary either, but hey, you have to realize the difference between the nazi system and what Truean said.

Unfortunately there really are "vingettes," or documentation that you are trans and transitioning. It's part of what they make you do when following the medical guidelines.

Apart from the medical documentation? With who and to what purpose?

[Virex]

There's a big difference between a nazi jew-star or gay-triangle and a hypothetical "certification of transness", that also would be volontary to carry, you can show people so they don't freak out when an apparant man steps into the womens' toilet. Just like a certificate of handicappedness is not meant to single people out but to let them park in special spots.

I don't want that to be necessary either, but hey, you have to realize the difference between the nazi system and what Truean said.

Except that societies reaction to transgendered people is so close to how Jews were treated in the '30s that adding in identification tools would be like founding a Turkish enclave in the Balkan.