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[Truean]

YMMV:)

I have a degree in psychology and I can assure you part of it is true and part of it is pure unapologetic bullshit. Most of what Freud says is crap, with the exception of defense mechanisms. The problems are:

A.) The crap gets mistaken for good science and the good science gets mistaken for crap.
B.) There are people who wholeheartedly believe outdated, crap theories from Freud and his students like Jung. I know businesses who hire and fire people based on those dumb tests that tell you if you're INTJ, or whatever other BS alphabet soup they come up with. This even though I can take that test on two different days and come up with two different results! Myers-Briggs, et al, is stupid and unreliable at best.
C.) Some parts of it just don't show up well on film or other evidential methods. Thoughts simply don't photograph well.
D.) Some parts of it are more true than others:

a.) Neuroscience, physiological, and sensation/perception psych are usually dead on. I can show you on a bloody fMRI where the oxygen is being used by the brain and what that part of the brain does. However, even this isn't infallible as they have tried to use this valid medical science in stupid ways like trying to read your mind.
b.) Cognitive Psychology and behaviorism have some really good points. This is especially true for animals in behaviorism. Moreover, cognitive psych uses, in many cases, an information processing model that makes sense.
c.) Freud: is overwhelmingly and with few exceptions, a nutjob who really did use cocaine.... It shows.

Bottom Line: The problem with this kind of stuff is that you're applying statistics to things statistics don't model well. An example is like saying Ice Cream causes murder, which someone did a while ago. The numbers simply add up. It is statistically significant at a P level of .05 and the error coefficients work out within the confidence variables. The problem? This is what we call a "Spurious Correlation."

Ice cream does not cause murder. Violent crimes increase in frequency with warmer weather. Murder is a type of violent crime and ice cream is consumed more on hot days.... Thus, what the numbers were really showing, is that violent crimes, including murder, happen more in warmer weather....

[Rose]

[Truean]

Once again, Rick Perry is a complete moron who doesn't understand anything, especially the U.S. constitution. He actually wants to "uproot" the federal government. This would include making Congress, "part time." Isn't it funny how the job he wants, President, would remain full time? He has no constitutional authority to do anything he's saying at all and he'd be gutting every single solitary check and balance in government. There is less than 0 chance he'd be able to do any of the things he wants to do at all and any attempt to do so would be the single biggest constitutional violation in U.S. history. He would literally have to amend and basically rewrite the entire document.

He wants to basically make Congress and the Courts next to nothing, but his desired position should be basically all-powerful.... Nothing fishy about this, not one bit.... Look at all the people in the comments section who actually support this crap plan.... It's a complete red herring from all the real problems we need to solve. Unworkable.... Seriously, anyone who has ever taken 5th grade civics should know you can't just get rid of Congress or limit it like that....

[RedKing]

Seriously, anyone who has ever taken 5th grade civics

Which disqualifies most of the Republican base, especially the Perry base. At this point, he could go "I wanna replace Congress with an annual turkey shoot contest, and we'll pick the five best ones what done shot up the mostest turkeys, and they can give me advice on stuff," and Republicans would lap that shit up, and claim it's a return to American values and democracy.

[scriver]

Dude. Your elitism is showing.

[Duke 2.0]

 It's amazing those hicks can even find their way to the voting places hyuk hyuk hyuk

[RedKing]

Dude. Your elitism is showing.

I never claimed to be otherwise. Consider for a moment that we've hit a point where the notion of being "better than the average" is disdained. If wanting the fate of the country to be decided by our best and brightest rather than the least common denominator makes me an elitist prick, then I'll wear that label proudly.

@Duke: Dude...I live in the South. I interact with these sort of "red-meat" Republicans ALL DAY LONG. Some of them are family. So i stand by my assertion -- they don't really have a clue how the country works (or is intended to work) beyond what they hear on AM radio. And critical thinking and logic are not their forte. My own mother is a glaring example of this. I've explained to her at least three times that the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. And it's in one ear and out the other. Within a couple of months, she's reverted to her previous belief. Same thing with "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim".

It's not dementia, it's not just simple ignorance...it's just called being stump-dumb.

[scriver]

No, assuming those not of your political opinions to be be blubbering morons while those on your own side is the "best and the brightest" is what makes you an "elitist prick".  You might as well call them sheeple or make similes to the nazis while you're at it, because that's the level you're bringing yourself down to right now.

[Duke 2.0]

@Duke: Dude...I live in the South. I interact with these sort of "red-meat" Republicans ALL DAY LONG. Some of them are family. So i stand by my assertion -- they don't really have a clue how the country works (or is intended to work) beyond what they hear on AM radio. And critical thinking and logic are not their forte. My own mother is a glaring example of this. I've explained to her at least three times that the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. And it's in one ear and out the other. Within a couple of months, she's reverted to her previous belief. Same thing with "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim".

It's not dementia, it's not just simple ignorance...it's just called being stump-dumb.

 I live in the 'hood, and let me tell you, black people really are kinda dumb.

 Yes I know race =/= political alignment, but the cultural similarities between these two statements reflect how silly this all is.

[RedKing]

No, assuming those not of your political opinions to be be blubbering morons while those on your own side is the "best and the brightest" is what makes you an "elitist prick".  You might as well call them sheeple or make similes to the nazis while you're at it, because that's the level you're bringing yourself down to right now.

I don't assume that "my side" (even though, as a lifelong Independent, I don't really have a side) has a monopoly on the best and brightest. But I do assume, based on past actions and interactions with Republicans, that they have made a conscious choice to reject the best and the brightest. There is a very deep and obvious strain of anti-intellectualism within the modern GOP. Having a Ph.D. is seen as a negative thing. Look at Bachmann dismissing scores of economists over the budget showdown, because although she has no background in economics, she "didn't believe it was all that bad" if we defaulted. When you see that kind of behavior, and you see a party base that supports and responds positively to that kind of attitude....yeah, I guess I have to assume that they're blubbering morons.

I'd love to see more prominent thoughtful, measured Republicans (a la Lincoln Chaffee, Arlen Specter, etc.) The problem is, they've all left the party because there's no room for them anymore.

[SalmonGod]

I think what RedKing is trying to say is that this isn't about political alignment.  It's about reaching the limits of what can be tolerated in differences of values.  There is a large and growing culture in America that openly values stupidity and hypocrisy.  Yes, as an issue of values, they can't necessarily be "wrong" in a literal sense of the word... just like a person can't be "wrong" who makes their own major life decisions with a game of russian roulette.  But when they start trying to include others in their game, you better believe they're going to be called crazy and stupid.

I've dealt with them too, RedKing.  There's no shortage of them in Indiana.  I've had in-depth discussions with people who subscribe to obvious hypocrisy and believe blatant lies.  You can state the contradictions in their thinking in the plainest language, for instance how trying to force their religious values into government is the exact same behavior that they demonize their enemies for.  You can put plain evidence in front of them that what they've taken to be fact is a blatant lie.  They'll shrug it off and tell you "Whatever.  I still stand by everything.  You can take your intellectualism and shove it.  You can have your evidence and logic and be right all you want.  I'll take my guns.  We'll see what truth gets taught in the end."

[Nadaka]

And that is why more progressive liberal intellectuals need to also be gun toting survivalists.

[MonkeyHead]

Used that in class on more than one occasion to illustrate the dangers of drawing conclusions from data... that and the whole pirate/global warming thing.

[Truean]

Dude. Your elitism is showing.

Rick Perry has been the elected governor of Texas for 10 years.... He knows absolutely nothing about the US Constitution or how government runs. He wants me in prison for the simple fact that I like men.... He is a leading contender for the Presidency of the United States. He says some of the most homophobic shit I've ever seen

Did I mention he wants me in prison for being gay? He wants to take away my life and throw me behind bars due to his bigoted crap and people cheer him for it! This would mean I couldn't be an attorney anymore because I'd have a long criminal record.... We're not good enough to get shot at either.

If railing against this shit and the people who support it before they seriously try to imprison me, again, for being honest and myself is elitist, then fine. I'd rather be free and "elitist" than imprisoned for life and not.  (Yeah, that's jail time PER INSTANCE of "homosexual conduct." It's cumulative, stacks up and o yeah, the State of Michigan had a max of 15 years for a first time offender of "sodomy" (consensual gay sex) This law was on on the books until the US Supreme Court overruled it in 2003....

I find it funny how these people are never called "elitist" though they are clearly looking down on, and spitting all over me.... For the majority of my life, it has been illegal for me to have sex, expressly because I'm gay.... When the courts finally fixed this injustice, people responded by making it unconstitutional for me to get married,   in 34 states, and they really tried to ban it nationally.

Only Liberals are "Elitists...." In order for me not to be "elitist," I should simmer down and let them ruin my life up to and including imprisonment without a thought or a sound. I should nod my head in agreement when they say what they are doing is "American," and what I am is not.... I absolutely am an American. I love this country and hate what they've done to it. Maybe it isn't "All" republicans who are homophobic. Maybe some of them are good, but they're silent when the bad ones speak up. They don't speak up when a gay soldier is booed at a presidential debate, because he is gay. You can bet if a democratic debate booed a soldier, they'd be called for blood over it.... It's ok when they do it though.... No formal apologies or any apologies that I'm aware of. He's gay, of course he's looked down upon. Why wouldn't he be? Fuck it; I am better than this. How isn't everyone? How... isn't... everyone...?

How dare I make a sound, any sound at all being elitist: it disturbs the pretense that I do not exist, much less matter.... I have to respect the voices of people, who do not respect me at all....

[SalmonGod]

To be fair, I don't think anyone was claiming elitist over those differences.  They were claiming elitism over the seemingly ad hominem nature of accusing the people we disagree with of de-valueing intelligence.  The sad thing is, it's really not.  It's absolutely true, and it's not hard to find examples of them admitting to it proudly.

Basically, this isn't about what they value, because claiming a monopoly on intelligence over differences in values really is elitism.  No, this is about why and how they value.  It's not elitism to call somebody stupid when they openly reject intelligence from their culture.