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[Truean]

Not to be outdone by Arizona and Alabama's immigration bills, Florida has decided it can pass laws that very arguably violate the constitution:
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-blocks-fla-welfare-drug-testing-law-192910417.html

I just had a conversation with a co worker who politically favors the idea. He's not nuts; he doesn't like taxpayer money buying drugs. It's a good slogan; very important a good slogan. Slogans often slant the truth though and that's a problem.

1.) The fourth amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. It has two clauses, reasonableness, and warrant. This incredibly widespread search has no warrant, no probable cause, no reasonable suspicion, and forced cooperation making "voluntary nature" hard to argue with a straight face.
2.) Unlike drug testing for private sector jobs, the results of these tests are turned over to the police. Criminal charges WILL most certainly follow. How the hell is that admissible evidence...?
3.) They reveal just about anything in your medical history and they are not kept private = very, very invasive.
[That would be an end run around the entire health care privacy laws like HIPPA, but only if you're poor....]
4.) Its an untrue stereotype that all drug users are poor; no and no. I can personally assure you, no. Rich people do drugs too and occasionally they get caught with them and need a lawyer.... The courts report all of this and there are thousands of cases to this effect.... Shit, is Lindsay Lohan off the headlines for that yet or is she still milking the publicity?

This is about a crazy solution if the problem really is about "taxpayer money buying drugs." It's a perfect solution if the problem is "we don't like poor people and we certainly don't like paying taxes for welfare." If we really wanted to make sure government money did not go to buying drugs via benefit payments, then the solution is mind blowingly simple. Give vouchers instead of money. Food stamps. Let's have, "Rent Stamps," and "transportation stamps." Have things that can't be easily exchanged for drugs.... Drug dealers don't take food stamps....

The point is, even if its correct that government money is currently being used to purchase illegal drugs, the answer is to give something that can't easily be exchanged for drugs instead of this. Also, those drug tests are expensive as hell. http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/floridas-welfare-drug-testing-costs-more-than-it-saves/

I'm sorry, I thought Republicans were for the "constitution," and "small government...." This is an unconstitutional, intrusive, expensive, expansion of government....

[sluissa]

This is Rick Scott, and he's for himself.

I believe there's already been plenty said about him around here in the past, however, just as a restatement. Florida largest drug testing company, and the one that arguably does the most business with the state government, was started by Rick Scott and transferred in ownership to his wife just prior to his run for Governor. (Thanks Aqizzar for pointing that out originally.)

EDIT: Also, small federal government. State Governments can do whatever the hell they want from what I can see. See Mitt Romney's: Health care is good for my state... but not for the United States.

[RedKing]

Right. Because there's this false notion that if you don't like the way your state is being run, you can just up and move to another one. Which is laughable, especially at a time where finding a new job is harder than passing Obama's jobs bill.

[Andir]

Eh... I just switched jobs.  It wasn't all that difficult to find someone willing to hire me for more money in these "hard times".

[freeformschooler]

Eh... I just switched jobs.  It wasn't all that difficult to find someone willing to hire me for more money in these "hard times".

Speak for yourself. I've put out well over a hundred applications, followed up on all of them, and had many word-of-mouth opportunities over the past two years. You know what I've gotten for it? Nothing. There's nothing wrong with me, I'm excellent at interviews, and it's always the same excuse: they're "looking for someone much more highly qualified". I have super grades in school, loads of volunteering and community service experience, and have worked small on-and-off jobs most of my teenage life.

Same thing I've heard from my other teenage friends. I'm nearly an adult now. Will I get a job once I'm an adult and graduate college? I hope so. Because right now it just seems like either you're extremely lucky, know something I don't, or just know someone who got you in.

[RedKing]

Eh... I just switched jobs.  It wasn't all that difficult to find someone willing to hire me for more money in these "hard times".

Way to think the world revolves around you. 
All you have to do is look at the numbers to know that your experience is the exception to the rule. I've applied for more than 100 Federal positions over the last three years, and only made it past the first cut a handful of times. Some of these jobs would be a $10-15,000 paycut, and I still found myself competing with 300-500 other people for that one job.

[GlyphGryph]

they're "looking for someone much more highly qualified"

I think, honestly, this is a big part of the issue - Large swathes of various industries have pretty much destroyed they're internship and skilled worker generation systems, in large part because a lot more people were "willing to move to another state and get another job". For a great many companies, it's just not worth the investment to train someone, or even hire an unskilled someone to train themselves while they work. This is how you get a situation where many companies are claiming they 'can't find enough employees", while several hundred applicants apply for every position they post. Companies have been all about cutting the strings and "doing more with less" lately, and a huge part of that is shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to hire anyone that doesn't already have a job, because they'd have to train them.

The sad thing is, in a perfectly competitive market (which we thankfully don't have), that's the natural state of things - no one gets experience, because the company willing to spend money training people loses them as soon as they become worthwhile to the company that DIDN'T train anyone, and thus has more money to offer as part of their compensation package.

[Andir]

I'm just saying, it's not really a false notion.  Jobs are out there.  I wasn't even necessarily looking for one and it fell in my lap.  Maybe it's your profession choice?  (I'm a Developer myself.)

[freeformschooler]

I'm just saying, it's not really a false notion.  Jobs are out there.  I wasn't even necessarily looking for one and it fell in my lap.  Maybe it's your profession choice?  (I'm a Developer myself.)

Well, you know, you've got a point, even though it's not much of one.

Look at it this way: people like you and me (who go into advanced computer fields) are more likely to be competitive in a job market like this one. Heck, up til now I've basically paid my own way through life just by fixing computers. Honestly the people who get art degrees or library science degrees or something like that have a much smaller chance of being successful.

However... IT-type people are the exception to the rule. Most people don't have degrees in a steadily growing field. But do note I know software developers and IT counselors (consultants?) twice my age who are also scrambling for jobs. I think you're just lucky.

[SalmonGod]

Not everything to do with computers is doing great right now, either.  I got a "New Media" degree, which is basically digital arts/graphic design/interactivity, and I focused on 3d art.  When I was first getting started in it, it was a booming field.  By the time I graduated about 3 years later, it was horribly over-saturated.

[Andir]

Sometimes you have to do jobs that you might not like.  Consider me lucky if you like, but I didn't always have an opportunity to do what I wanted.  I'm not going to run around claiming the end of the economy because I can't get into a specific job.

When I left college (while working full time as a store clerk), I got a job doing field support in the computer field.  It had nothing to do with my degree except that it was computers.  It was menial and sometimes degrading depending on where you were sent  (Have you ever been sent to a job where you didn't know what the problem was until you get there to find out you don't know how to fix it so you spend the next hour poking around trying to find something that fixed the problem?  How much time do you bill the person for your incompetence?  Explain that to your boss.)  While at that job I applied for a job at a larger company doing phone support (because they needed people, and it was better pay)  At that job I started doing development work and worked my way into a web development group.  So, for the first 5-7 years of my work experience I didn't do anything related to my degree... but they were jobs.  I was now at least in the same state as my degree even though it was still considered by some to be "entry level".  To this day, I get a kick out of people coming straight out of college expecting to be hired into a development job making over $50k because that's what they studied at college.  Sure, there are lucky ones.  But I'd wager that the majority are not so lucky.

[ChairmanPoo]

Spoiler: Not so fast, bucko (click to show/hide)

[freeformschooler]

Sometimes you have to do jobs that you might not like.  Consider me lucky if you like, but I didn't always have an opportunity to do what I wanted.  I'm not going to run around claiming the end of the economy because I can't get into a specific job.

When I left college (while working full time as a store clerk), I got a job doing field support in the computer field.  It had nothing to do with my degree except that it was computers.  It was menial and sometimes degrading depending on where you were sent  (Have you ever been sent to a job where you didn't know what the problem was until you get there to find out you don't know how to fix it so you spend the next hour poking around trying to find something that fixed the problem?  How much time do you bill the person for your incompetence?  Explain that to your boss.)

I don't think anyone's claiming the end of the economy because they can't get into a specific job, but rather, because a vast portion can't get into any job.

Though I lol'd at the second parentheses, that is so true. My dad has said that about his tasks in previous jobs countless times, even though they weren't go-to jobs like computer troubleshooting. Thankfully I haven't had much of that in my troubleshooting yet.

Honestly, at this point I would be fine with a job cleaning floors and windows for 7 or 8 dollars an hour. Being a teenager, that's the majority of what I'm qualified for. I can't get those jobs, either, because they're looking for someone with more experience.

[Siquo]

You're both talking about different things here.
1. There's less jobs to be had so there's people who'd take anything and still won't get hired
AND
2. People have been lied to in college. The stereotype of current young'uns getting out of college and expecting the world at their feet is... widespread to say the least. I've got a similar work history as Andir. I'm 32 and still under 50k.

So yeah, both Andir and ffs are right Still, when it comes to the job market, YMMV is an understatement. It's 90% luck.

[freeformschooler]

You're both talking about different things here.
1. There's less jobs to be had so there's people who'd take anything and still won't get hired
AND
2. People have been lied to in college. The stereotype of current young'uns getting out of college and expecting the world at their feet is... widespread to say the least. I've got a similar work history as Andir. I'm 32 and still under 50k.

So yeah, both Andir and ffs are right Still, when it comes to the job market, YMMV is an understatement. It's 90% luck.

True, true. If this was an argument it would be silly! Anyway, I think we can agree to agree or agree to disagree on the rest.

But yeah, I don't really expect to get out of college and have my perfect job. I'll probably be keeping up this troubleshooting business for at least another year!