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[kaijyuu]

Reminds me of that saying some people like to toss around: "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally!" Well if you hate people on the basis of race, regardless of if you hate every race equally, you're still a racist, bucko.

Same goes for sexism.



If you prefer, though, I'll change the words around to more (in your opinion) accurately describe the problem. The problem is double standards, stereotypes, and preformed opinions on the basis of sex. Gimme a better word for that, one that doesn't include discrimination, and I'll use it.

[Bohandas]

Bohandas, stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped.

Therefore, stereotyping is part of sexism.

Referring to dictionaries cannot eliminate or alter this essential truth.

OBJECTION!

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

-TOTAL LOGICAL DISCONNECT
(Example: I enjoy pasta because my house is made of bricks.)

(see http://www.leany.com/logic/Adams.html)

Reminds me of that saying some people like to toss around: "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally!" Well if you hate people on the basis of race, regardless of if you hate every race equally, you're still a racist, bucko.

Where in the quoted slogan does it say anything about it being on the basis of race?

[SalmonGod]

Reminds me of that saying some people like to toss around: "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally!" Well if you hate people on the basis of race, regardless of if you hate every race equally, you're still a racist, bucko.

Actually, I think that's just plain misanthrophy...

but I've never met anyone I believed to be honest with that phrase, anyway.

[Leafsnail]

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

Vector didn't define anything in that post anywhere so as far as I can tell you're performing "Argument by bizarre accusations of fallacies".

In fact your strawmanning accusation made no sense either.

[Vector]

Strawman, Bohandas.

Are you arguing that stereotyping doesn't hurt people?  Or are you arguing that if it isn't said in your preferred dictionary, it can't be so?

[Jackrabbit]

Bohandas, stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped.

Therefore, stereotyping is part of sexism.

Referring to dictionaries cannot eliminate or alter this essential truth.

OBJECTION!

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

-TOTAL LOGICAL DISCONNECT
(Example: I enjoy pasta because my house is made of bricks.)

(see http://www.leany.com/logic/Adams.html)

Uh? Stereotyping can and does reinforce negative images of those it stereotypes. Not always, but often. Ergo, it can hurt people being stereotyped. For example, the stereotype of the camp homosexual does exist but is not the rule, and yet plenty of people assume that gays are all flamboyant. Furthermore, people often see this as a negative thing, thereby hurting even those homosexuals who are not camp.

Therefore, there is no logical disconnect between stereotyping and sexism, because if a stereotype of women is being perpetuated that hurts them, then it is sexist, just as if a stereotype of black people is being perpetuated that hurts them, it is racist. It's not a difficult conclusion to make, not even slightly.

[kaijyuu]

Reminds me of that saying some people like to toss around: "I'm not racist; I hate everyone equally!" Well if you hate people on the basis of race, regardless of if you hate every race equally, you're still a racist, bucko.

Where in the quoted slogan does it say anything about it being on the basis of race?

Well it generally comes after a particularly racist remark (which is often tongue-in-cheek).

You're right though that the statement does not necessitate hating people on the basis of race. Kinda odd they'd mention racism if so, though.

Actually, I think that's just plain misanthrophy...

but I've never met anyone I believed to be honest with that phrase, anyway.

True, and me neither. Least as far as I can tell.

[Bohandas]

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

Vector didn't define anything in that post anywhere so as far as I can tell you're performing "Argument by bizarre accusations of fallacies".

In fact your strawmanning accusation made no sense either.

She implied an unusual definition of sexism with the statement "stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped. Therefore, stereotyping is part of sexism."

I will grant that some of the definitions for sexism that I used were perhaps a bit contentious, but the implication made in the above quote, namely that sexism encompasses everything that hurts people, blows them all out of the water.

[Vector]

... That isn't an "unusual" definition of sexism at all.

I didn't imply that "sexism is everything that hurts people."  You need to chill, relax, and generally cool it.

[Jackrabbit]

Stereotyping is part of sexism. That doesn't mean stereotyping is sexism. Nor does it mean that sexism is everything that hurts people. That has nothing to do with what Vector said, how did you draw that conclusion? Mind explaining the logical progression there?

[Bauglir]

Stereotyping is part of sexism.

Even if you're stereotyping both genders to similar degrees. Men are dumb and women are crazy is sexist, despite not being favorable to either. That's in support, by the way, not an argument against the post I've quoted.

[Bohandas]

Bohandas, stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped.

Therefore, stereotyping is part of sexism.

Referring to dictionaries cannot eliminate or alter this essential truth.

OBJECTION!

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

-TOTAL LOGICAL DISCONNECT
(Example: I enjoy pasta because my house is made of bricks.)

(see http://www.leany.com/logic/Adams.html)

Uh? Stereotyping can and does reinforce negative images of those it stereotypes. Not always, but often. Ergo, it can hurt people being stereotyped. For example, the stereotype of the camp homosexual does exist but is not the rule, and yet plenty of people assume that gays are all flamboyant. Furthermore, people often see this as a negative thing, thereby hurting even those homosexuals who are not camp.

It could be argued that the stereotype that all homosexuals are camp actually helps those homosexuals who wish to remain in the closet (unless (of course) their desire to remain in the closet results directly from a desire to not be associated with this stereotype), because as long as they don't act in a campy manner people will assume that they are not gay.

[Vector]

Ahh, and that assumes that invisibility for homosexuals is inherently good.

I see, I see.

[G-Flex]

It could be argued that the stereotype that all homosexuals are camp actually helps those homosexuals who wish to remain in the closet (unless (of course) their desire to remain in the closet results directly from a desire to not be associated with this stereotype), because as long as they don't act in a campy manner people will assume that they are not gay.

And the stereotype that black people have a good sense of rhythm is good for black people who want to become professional dancers!

Seriously though, for what reason would a gay person want to remain in the closet except for the fact that homosexuality carries with it social stigma?


Stereotyping pigeonholes groups. This isn't necessarily bad for those who happen to fit the stereotype, or for those who can exploit those expectations for their own gain, but on the whole it diminishes the freedom of the group in general and causes social friction by making bizarre expectations of them that don't necessarily make any sense.


And yes, stereotyping women (or men) is not only a part of sexism, but is also a sufficient condition for sexism to exist. If you stereotype a gender, you are being sexist.

[Bohandas]

Ahh, and that assumes that invisibility for homosexuals is inherently good.

I see, I see.

I didn't say it helps all gays. I said that it helps (only) those who choose to remain in the closet.

Seriously though, for what reason would a gay person want to remain in the closet except for the fact that homosexuality carries with it social stigma?

I also stated that if the stated stereotype is the reason for them staying in the closet then the bad (more than) cancels out the good


=======================================================================

Bohandas, stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped.

Therefore, stereotyping is part of sexism.

Referring to dictionaries cannot eliminate or alter this essential truth.

OBJECTION!

-ARGUMENT BY BIZARRE DEFINITION
(Example: He’s not a criminal. He just does things that are against the law.)

-TOTAL LOGICAL DISCONNECT
(Example: I enjoy pasta because my house is made of bricks.)

(see http://www.leany.com/logic/Adams.html)

... That isn't an "unusual" definition of sexism at all.

I didn't imply that "sexism is everything that hurts people."  You need to chill, relax, and generally cool it.

Major Premise: _______________________
Minor Premise: "stereotyping hurts the people stereotyped"
Conclusion:      "stereotyping is part of sexism"

Fill in the blank.