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[Vector]

All the same: why does adult always mean catering to those who would objectify women?

Does the word euphemism ring a bell?

I'm saying that it's interesting that "adult" makes an assumption of heterosexual masculinity right off the bat.

Dark/gritty/etc.  There's been a definite push for mature material comics and as art forms.  Drawing a women as a big breasted bitch or drawing a man as a muscle bound hard ass is pretty common in graphic novels.  I don't think anyone is reading them to compare it to their own life or the world around them.  It's a fantasy escape.

Right--for whom?

[Nadaka]

Ah, but by adult do you mean pornish, or do you mean dark, gritty, etc.?

I did read a book about this a long, long time ago, which did enlighten me somewhat to what you're discussing.  All the same: why does adult always mean catering to those who would objectify women?

It doesn't. For example, the new wonder woman has a far less revealing outfit than her historical counterparts. Adult means they can handle a broader range of stories, archetypes and concepts, that includes dark and gritty as well as sexual or romantic. With a broader range, there is bound to be some bad, or at least poor, mixed in with the good.

[Virex]

All the same: why does adult always mean catering to those who would objectify women?

Does the word euphemism ring a bell?

I'm saying that it's interesting that "adult" makes an assumption of heterosexual masculinity right off the bat.

It's for the same hysterical raisins that gay shifted from happy to queer.[/quote]

[Andir]

Dark/gritty/etc.  There's been a definite push for mature material comics and as art forms.  Drawing a women as a big breasted bitch or drawing a man as a muscle bound hard ass is pretty common in graphic novels.  I don't think anyone is reading them to compare it to their own life or the world around them.  It's a fantasy escape.

Right--for whom?

For whomever wants it.  It's obviously not targeted at you... and I probably wouldn't buy it.  (But I have been considering getting into the Deadpool series)

And I can see the next question.  What if a kid wants it?  That's what parenting is about.

[Vector]

*shrug*

There's a reason why I mostly read stuff from Japan.  Comics aren't written for me in this country.

[Andir]

I was under the impression that Japan tends to release quite a bit of objectionable content...

edit: ...in fact, I thought these very graphic novels were inspired by anime and some other Japanese work.

[Virex]

... You should know better than to affiliate with anything coming from Japan.

Dark/gritty/etc.  There's been a definite push for mature material comics and as art forms.  Drawing a women as a big breasted bitch or drawing a man as a muscle bound hard ass is pretty common in graphic novels.  I don't think anyone is reading them to compare it to their own life or the world around them.  It's a fantasy escape.

Right--for whom?

For whomever wants it.  It's obviously not targeted at you... and I probably wouldn't buy it.  (But I have been considering getting into the Deadpool series)

And I can see the next question.  What if a kid wants it?  That's what parenting is about.

What if we're talking about a normal man, someone who can see the glaring problems such as big boobs and slutty behavior, but not the subtle, subliminal reinforcements of female stereotypes?

[Vector]

I didn't say I read every Japanese comic book, now did I?

And yeah, I do affiliate with something coming from Japan, proudly.  My father was born there.

[Leafsnail]

I was under the impression that Japan tends to release quite a bit of objectionable content...

In addition to comics that are suited to those who don't want women objectified.

[Andir]

What if we're talking about a normal man, someone who can see the glaring problems such as big boobs and slutty behavior, but not the subtle, subliminal reinforcements of female stereotypes?

...opposed to the subtle and subliminal reinforcements of male stereotypes?  These subtle hints are not confined to comics.  Television, advertisement (especially... how many cleaning commercials feature men, car part/repair commercials featuring women [without a man right there]?), movies, books...

I didn't say I read every Japanese comic book, now did I?

If I may be frank, you kind of alluded that you prefer Japanese writing instead of comics in this country and I took it to mean all comics printed here.  Now, not all comics portray these stereotypes (a great proportion may), but that does not mean that someone into "comics from this country" reads all of them like you don't read all Japanese material.  Does that make sense?

And yeah, I do affiliate with something coming from Japan, proudly.  My father was born there.

Sure, like I have a spot reserved for military Marines in my heart since my father was a Marine.  I can understand that.

[Virex]

What if we're talking about a normal man, someone who can see the glaring problems such as big boobs and slutty behavior, but not the subtle, subliminal reinforcements of female stereotypes?

...opposed to the subtle and subliminal reinforcements of male stereotypes?  These subtle hints are not confined to comics.  Television, advertisement (especially... how many cleaning commercials feature men, car part/repair commercials featuring women [without a man right there]?), movies, books...
  Does that make sense?

I don't see how the (generally positive, mind you) stereotypes pertaining to men influence the negative effect comic books can have on how someone regards women?
Besides, I agree entirely with the other points you bring up, but one wrong doesn't make all others right. I just don't have enough rage in my right now to attack everything, so let's stick to comic books for the moment, ok?

I didn't say I read every Japanese comic book, now did I?

It's not just the comic books, the whole culture is rotten to the core (unless you're a man of course...)

[Rose]

Nope, sorry, it's rotten to the core either way.

[Vector]

That's true.  I do like Calvin and Hobbes.

And close, but no cigar.  My grandfather was a missionary in the period right after WWII.

It's not just the comic books, the whole culture is rotten to the core (unless you're a man of course...)

Very funny.  I'm guessing you're really talking about my dislike of American superhero comics, to which I'll say: Strawman.

Nope, sorry, it's rotten to the core either way.

. . .

[Virex]

It's not just the comic books, the whole culture is rotten to the core (unless you're a man of course...)

Very funny.  I'm guessing you're really talking about my dislike of American superhero comics, to which I'll say: Strawman.

Is it wrong to tell someone they shouldn't buy T-shirts made by a company that supports child slavery (or child labor if you like euphemisms)? Then why should companies that do something similar to women be excused? Japan as a whole doesn't particularly like the concept of feminism and their publishing companies are no exception.


Edit: Maybe I'm just seeing ghosts here though. It just doesn't sit right with me that so many people are apparently in love with a country that's in some respects worse that 1850s America...

[Andir]

What if we're talking about a normal man, someone who can see the glaring problems such as big boobs and slutty behavior, but not the subtle, subliminal reinforcements of female stereotypes?

...opposed to the subtle and subliminal reinforcements of male stereotypes?  These subtle hints are not confined to comics.  Television, advertisement (especially... how many cleaning commercials feature men, car part/repair commercials featuring women [without a man right there]?), movies, books...
  Does that make sense?

I don't see how the (generally positive, mind you) stereotypes pertaining to men influence the negative effect comic books can have on how someone regards women?
Besides, I agree entirely with the other points you bring up, but one wrong doesn't make all others right. I just don't have enough rage in my right now to attack everything, so let's stick to comic books for the moment, ok?

Is it really positive to the man that doesn't want to be Hulk?

What if the guy wants to do the "finer" things in life?  Is he supposed to look upon the look at the ripply muscles of the comics and think that's an admirable goal?

How are those positive influences to him?  Is it really positive that men must be mechanical in nature?