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[Andir]

By that argument though you place the same fault on the person that does nothing as the person that did something.

Hmm... What you are saying is that the person standing on the shore that doesn't help the person drowning is a terrible person.  It wouldn't matter if the person on shore didn't know how to swim or if there are sharks in the water.  Just that their inaction makes them a faulty and "bad" person.

[SalmonGod]

I'd say a person's responsibility to help another is at the very least proportional to the amount of personal risk involved.

If the majority of cops were decent people, there wouldn't be much personal risk.

Edit:  Not to mention helping others is kinda supposed to be their job, which every member of society pays for and relies on them to do.

[Bauglir]

It is unquestionably wrong that the cops who aren't, themselves, abusing their power this way do nothing to stop those who do. In its own way, it is its own abuse of power. I don't think they are the same wrong however. It's absurd to say that arguing that they aren't as blameworthy means arguing that they are blameless. It's not a binary property, and conflating the people who go and beat protestors with the people who know about it and don't do anything is way too simplistic.

[SalmonGod]

It's their job to protect people's rights and take action against those who violate those rights, isn't it?

[Andir]

I'd say a person's responsibility to help another is at the very least proportional to the amount of personal risk involved.

If the majority of cops were decent people, there wouldn't be much personal risk.

You, being a third person, do not know what personal risk is involved.  You're assuming that their is a minority of good cops based on a perceived abundance of bad action.

If I were a cop viewing that video my first reaction (without training) is what was the guy doing?  I can't see him on film.  Maybe he had a knife in his hand and he wasn't letting go.  I can't tell.  All I have to go by is the reactions of people who can't see what the person did or maybe can't see that he has some weapon.  I can review the evidence later and determine if I need to speak up, but holy crap... why should I involve myself in that ordeal?  They have Internal affairs to investigate it.  And if I speak out, it could cost me my job and livelihood.

Right or wrong, you simply cannot take the stance that inaction is punishable.

[Bauglir]

It's their job to protect people's rights and take action against those who violate those rights, isn't it?

Have I disputed that? No. Read my last post again.

[SalmonGod]

You're assuming that their is a minority of good cops based on a perceived abundance of bad action.

And if I speak out, it could cost me my job and livelihood.

I see a contradiction here.

It's their job to protect people's rights and take action against those who violate those rights, isn't it?

Have I disputed that? No. Read my last post again.

You're saying that inaction against a wrongdoing is not the same as wrongdoing.  But what if it is your duty to act, and the only reason for your inaction is because the wrongdoers happen to be your co-workers?... That is a level of complicity that equals support, in my opinion.  It is a form of participation in the wrongdoing.  It is the contribution to an internal culture that allows for the repetition of wrongdoing.

Unless good cops are minority with relatively little power to do anything about it, in which case they don't deserve quite so much blame.

[Phmcw]

Police need to be regulated by the government, and the government need to be regulated by it's citizens.
Right now, you let your government get away with anything (and that's true in large part for Europeans too, especially the British) and therefore get a corupt police force and a shitty economy.
Most of our problems can be traced back to bad policies. Including terrorism, war on terror, drugs, economic crisis, .....
But the problem is the regulation of the government.

[Bauglir]

It's their job to protect people's rights and take action against those who violate those rights, isn't it?

Have I disputed that? No. Read my last post again.

You're saying that inaction against a wrongdoing is not the same as wrongdoing.  But what if it is your duty to act, and the only reason for your inaction is because the wrongdoers happen to be your co-workers?... That is a level of complicity that equals support, in my opinion.  It is a form of participation in the wrongdoing.  It is the contribution to an internal culture that allows for the repetition of wrongdoing.

Then yes, you're wrong for supporting a culture that is wrong, but I'm still not going to argue that the dude whose crime is failing to do his duty is just as nasty as the dude whose crime is failing to do his duty and also beating the shit out of some innocent person. The latter is wrong in all the same ways as the former, and several more besides.

And I'm not going to accept generalizations like some of the ones that have gotten tossed around in this thread, that are blunt statements that to be a police officer is to be the latter guy, as if being a brutal thug is a defining characteristic of being a police officer. Arguing that police need to be reined in, that brutality is far too rampant, that the system as it exists now is a failure at keeping police action civilized, yes, I agree to all of that. But lets try to blame people for what they've actually done, and not what their associates have done. That includes defending their associates; that's something people should be held accountable for.

[GlyphGryph]

To those arguing that comparing the police force to an armed gang is unfair because most police officers are not bad people - a good portion of gang members, in general, are not "bad people" either. Well, not at first, anyways.

Still, most police officers, in my experience, are not bad people. Neither are most of them good people. Police work is not nearly as risky as most people believe, and many police officers are only there to bring in a paycheck and do their job. They may take pride in their job at times, even. They may try to avoid unneeded cruelty. This does not make them good people. The great majority of them are, at best, a mix of good and bad. Very few police officers stand on the shore and watch a child drown, for example, but most would join in on beating a homeless person if pressured by superiors and peers. Police officers are merely human, and they are not the enemy - demonizing them will only serve to drive the better police officers from a job where they will get no respect and no trust and have their capability to do good diminished.

No, the solution is to praise the ideal of what a police officer can be and push, constantly, relentlessly, for a system that encourages and supports that ideal. Our current system is far from that.

I'm open to suggestions about what I, personally, can do.

[Leafsnail]

To those arguing that comparing the police force to an armed gang is unfair because most police officers are not bad people - a good portion of gang members, in general, are not "bad people" either.

Well one can compare a police force to an armed gang if one selectively choses the bits that are similar.  If one, for instance, said "They help prosecute people for murder" or "They smuggle in drugs to fund their operations" you'd begin to see the difference.

Police officers are merely human, and they are not the enemy - demonizing them will only serve to drive the better police officers from a job where they will get no respect and no trust and have their capability to do good diminished.

This is a good point, and I think it may go far beyond police officers (I'd say to some extent it applies to politicians, for instance).  I'm getting kindof tired of the "There's a group of assholes and they're the ones causing the problem" mentality being applied to everything.

[Andir]

...

When I'm not at work, I don't get upset and pissed off at someone writing bad code.  I don't expect "good cops" to get pissed off and upset at someone else in a different jurasdiction/state/city on their off hours.

[SalmonGod]

Very few police officers stand on the shore and watch a child drown, for example, but most would join in on beating a homeless person if pressured by superiors and peers.

This is unimaginable to me, and any such person is a bad person in my opinion.

But then, I'm a person who couldn't be pressured into smoking, drinking, having a girlfriend just for show, making fun of others who didn't deserve it, pointless fistfights, etc even in my teenage years when people are supposed to be "impressionable".  So it's really hard for me to be sympathetic with those who do things that I consider an utter failure to their own humanity when pressured.

Edit:

I'm getting kindof tired of the "There's a group of assholes and they're the ones causing the problem" mentality being applied to everything.

I'd like to clarify that I do not think this way.  I see cops and politicians as a product of structural flaws in our society, but I specifically avoid commenting on those too deeply because an involved discussion about my anarchist beliefs with a large audience always gets chaotically flooded with accusations of naivety and impenetrable walls of preconception.

I do think there are groups of assholes that cause problems or prevent us from fixing problems, but I don't think that they're THE problem and THE problem is the mechanisms by which those assholes form groups whose actions are tolerated, legitimized, or even actively supported by our culture.

[Glowcat]

When I'm not at work, I don't get upset and pissed off at someone writing bad code.  I don't expect "good cops" to get pissed off and upset at someone else in a different jurasdiction/state/city on their off hours.

When an unassociated programmer writes bad code it is merely a case of incompetence. Bad cops who get away with a crime undermine trust in the legal system and its enforcers. As such, it negatively impacts any cop trying to uphold the motto on their badge. Any, as you say, "Good Cop" should damn well be angry when a bad apple tarnishes the uniform. He or she should be downright furious when the institution itself protects these people.

Your analogy doesn't stand.

[Bohandas]

It is unquestionably wrong that the cops who aren't, themselves, abusing their power this way do nothing to stop those who do. In its own way, it is its own abuse of power. I don't think they are the same wrong however. It's absurd to say that arguing that they aren't as blameworthy means arguing that they are blameless. It's not a binary property, and conflating the people who go and beat protestors with the people who know about it and don't do anything is way too simplistic.

This makes sense. The officers who don't use unnecessary force, but who also don't do anything about those who do, can't really be said to be doing anything worse than slacking off at their jobs. Unfortunately, their job is one that is important when done properly, in many places that deficit in vigilance can make a big difference.