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[CoughDrop]

I wish I could have one... riding a bicycle around where I live is simply too dangerous.

...In fact I often get depressed looking at big-ass vehicles that people wasted money on (and are continuing to waste on via gas).

[Virex]

Given the price of gas, I would be ready to buy a single place solar powered automobile to go to work (aka this thing) provided it's cheap enough to make a net gain. Just saying.

Those cars usually run on triple junction thin film cells. Those things cost a fortune and a half...

[Solifuge]

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/university-of-michigan-students-put-solar-vehicle-on-display-in-university-circle This is supposed to be a car.... You know what, no, just no. For right now, we need to admit that if this is the best we can do with an all solar powered car, we need to pursue branch applications as well. Continue research but go for other practical solar applications.

I really don't think this is fair. This was a student project, and a damned impressive one. They built a freaking solar powered car. You do understand how technology works, right? That a particular project doesn't need to be practical, or intended to be produced, to be valuable? That the experience they got there is likely to aid them as they go on in the industry to do some other remarkable stuff, and that the technology they developed for it could well have other applications?

And mostly, that they built a really awesome thing?

And hell, I'd drive the thing with no issues. Its an engineering beauty, and I really don't understand why you're putting it down.

Heh... I've actually seen that car in person several times, most recently just last month; they were showing it off during the Art Fair, and sometimes drive it around campus.

I think that, in part, what Truean was thinking was "It doesn't look like anything I'd recognize as a car". That's certainly true; it's very different than anything else. However, it is also exceedingly cool! Fully-functional solar transportation; take a moment to realize what that means. Their 2011 model can handle speeds up to 100 MPH too, which is leaps and bounds of improvement!

Also, though Glyph pretty much hit most points on the head, consider this. If you look at the vehicle safety regulations, realize that all the safety laws are built with all the gasoline-powered cars on the road in mind. We'd have to approach our standards again to give vehicles like this, where weight and efficiency are much bigger factors, a chance to compete. One can hope that oil lobbyists don't maintain their stranglehold on auto regulations forever.

[Truean]

It's not a prototype, its a finished product.

I... don't think you really understand what it is.

It was built for a race. It won the race. Calling this a prototype is like calling the the first lunar lander to arrive on the moon a prototype. (in other words, it is just wrong) This is a fully functional finished product, and I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.

However, it currently doesn't fit the bill for an automobile on the road today.

Since they were setting out to build a race vehicle, not a roadcar, I don't see why this would be surprising.

Spoiler: And even if it were a road car... (click to show/hide)

it would be totally obliterated in any traffic accident

Everything has trade offs. I'd much prefer roads full of road-designed variants of these things moving around at 35mph (with no fuel costs!) rather than the hunks of metal we scream around in now.

cannot handle snow

There are plenty of vehicles on the roads that can't handle snow. People just don't drive them in the snow.

and only seats one

This actually always pissed me off a bit, that I can't get cars that only seat one. I would love a vehicle that only seated one (I actually own one right now), but why should I have to pay all that extra money for space I'm not going to use?

But I still don't understand what you're point is here, to be honest, and if its simply "we can do more research", well... uh, ok. I don't see how that relates to you playing down what these people accomplished? I don't understand how

This is supposed to be a car.... You know what, no, just no.

is a valid response to their achievement. First, its not even trying to be a car. Second, it's likely not the best we can do, just the best thats been bothered because its not a particularly lucrative field since the vast bulk of the populace (like yourself) are unwilling to accept the trade-offs it would entail. Finally... why no? Seriously?

With respect you're reading a tad much into my posts good sir. I don't think we're understanding each other. I totally want a future where it doesn't cost me way too damn much to fill a tank too.... My point was, "needs more research," "needs current practical applications," and "needs more funding for both of these." <---- This is not knocking it, this is supporting it and saying that support should translate into money....

It's not a prototype, its a finished product.

http://wise.web.itd.umich.edu/?page_id=11
"There are plenty of opportunities to brainstorm ideas, develop solutions and test prototypes with faculty, staff and fellow students on campus. Team Design Projects, small group work, collaborative classroom assignments and multidisciplinary projects provide opportunities to hone skills as leaders and develop talents as a team player. From refining the design of the Human-Powered Submarine or racing with the Michigan Solar Car Team to building greenhouses for middle schools, you will work with many interesting students at Michigan. Collaborate with others to enrich your experiences as an engineer."

I'm sorry but .... They call it a prototype themselves. See that picture? That's the same one in the article.... If they call it a prototype and use it as their exemplar prototype.... It's a prototype.

First, its not even trying to be a car. Second, it's likely not the best we can do, just the best thats been bothered because its not a particularly lucrative field since the vast bulk of the populace (like yourself) are unwilling to accept the trade-offs it would entail. Finally... why no? Seriously?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_Solar_Car_Team
http://www.saturnelectronics.com/pr_umsolarcar.htm
Yes... it is trying to be a car.... That is why car companies are sponsoring it; they want to one day build one sorta like this. All those logos on the side.... They call it the "solar car" team. Also it is the best they can do; this is cutting edge man and it's expensive. Speaking of which....

As for the trade offs, this thing cost $1 Million ($1,000,000).
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-06/detroits-latest-solar-powered-infinium-unfortunately-cant-be-bought

People can't afford that stuff dude. It is an entirely valid thing to be "unwilling to accept the trade-offs it would entail," when those trade offs include a million dollar price tag.... That said, safety and functionality are equally valid concerns.

35 mph

Where are you getting this?
"The 2011 vehicle weighs only 320 pounds and can drive at a top speed of 105 mph.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/university-of-michigan-students-put-solar-vehicle-on-display-in-university-circle#ixzz1VPflZ5Bf"

I am being very reasonable to worry about a traffic system with lightweight vehicles zooming around at 105 mph.... I've read the lawsuits from accidents at far slower speeds, they don't end well.

Again, I'm not knocking it; I like it; I took time out of my day specifically to see it in person.... Again, I"m supporting it and sad this is all the meager funding they have received has allowed them to produce.

I want it to be the things you want it to be too, except unfortunately, it currently is not....

[Bauglir]

I think the 35 mph thing was meant to communicate that 105 is enough overkill that some loss of speed would be acceptable to allow additional safety features.

[Leafsnail]

Isn't the "has to be US-soil born" law somewhat ridiculous as well, though?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_requirements_for_President_of_the_United_States
Constitutional....

May I put it to you that something can be constitutional and ridiculous?

[Vector]

It used to make sense, because it meant someone born and raised in Europe could come back from England and sort of repossess the country via leadership.

Now, though, I'll agree that it's somewhat odd.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Of course, the Constitution can also be amended.

[Nadaka]

Its purpose was to prevent foreign powers from inserting covert agents into the political apparatus in order to subvert US independence in a time when we had an wide open immigration policy.

Pseudo edit: I got ninja'd

[Virex]

Isn't the "has to be US-soil born" law somewhat ridiculous as well, though?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_requirements_for_President_of_the_United_States
Constitutional....

May I put it to you that something can be constitutional and ridiculous?

Such a viewpoint would be unconstitutional young lad...

[Leafsnail]

I can see why it was once needed, but that doesn't mean it is relevant today or that Obama is evil if he wasn't born in the US.

I mean, I've seen several arguments that run "X is constitutionally intended, therefore X is correct and we shouldn't try to change it".

[Nadaka]

There are constitutional dogmatists out there. One thing to consider is that every part of the constitution serves a purpose, and it is important to understand that purpose before dismissing, altering or removing it.

[Truean]

I think the 35 mph thing was meant to communicate that 105 is enough overkill that some loss of speed would be acceptable to allow additional safety features.

Maybe, I dunno. I hope so. I hope this changes things.

Isn't the "has to be US-soil born" law somewhat ridiculous as well, though?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_requirements_for_President_of_the_United_States
Constitutional....

May I put it to you that something can be constitutional and ridiculous?

Such a viewpoint would be unconstitutional young lad...

Yes, very yes. With style points to Virex.... [Hands Virex a top hat! ]

Of course, the Constitution can also be amended.

Yeah but given the birther uproar, I ... somehow doubt they would make it easier to be president, especially in this area.

It used to make sense, because it meant someone born and raised in Europe could come back from England and sort of repossess the country via leadership.

Now, though, I'll agree that it's somewhat odd.

Yeah, Manchurian Candidate argument aside. I think it has something to do with getting loyalty of the people and experience. [shrugs] Same idea with the "you've gotta be 35," stuff. Does that make sense? Eh, I dunno.

[Mattasmack]

I hesitate to post because I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the conversation, but what the heck ...

Yay, solar power, a subject I actually know anything about!  I hope I'm not totally derailed here ... could the future of transportation (which also touches on the future of energy supplies and delivery systems) be considered a progressive topic?

(snip)

It's not a prototype, its a finished product.

http://wise.web.itd.umich.edu/?page_id=11
"There are plenty of opportunities to brainstorm ideas, develop solutions and test prototypes with faculty, staff and fellow students on campus. Team Design Projects, small group work, collaborative classroom assignments and multidisciplinary projects provide opportunities to hone skills as leaders and develop talents as a team player. From refining the design of the Human-Powered Submarine or racing with the Michigan Solar Car Team to building greenhouses for middle schools, you will work with many interesting students at Michigan. Collaborate with others to enrich your experiences as an engineer."

I'm sorry but .... They call it a prototype themselves. See that picture? That's the same one in the article.... If they call it a prototype and use it as their exemplar prototype.... It's a prototype.

Truean, I think you're still a little wide of the mark here.  The paragraph you quote lists opportunities to engage in a number of steps of the engineering design process ("brainstorm ideas, develop solutions and test prototypes"), but it does not at all mean that the activities of the groups it lists are limited to only those listed activities.  The paragraph is describing opportunities for collaboration, it's not even primarily about the solar car team.  I'm sure the students on that team do prototyping ... prototypes of the solar car, the final version of which is what they enter into races.

I'm sure the team will make a new car in the next two academic years, and will build on the knowledge they gained from this car, but that no more makes this a prototype than it makes any 2011-model-year car a prototype of the 2012-model-year car.  Their goal for a given car is to win a solar car race, and the car they enter into the race is their final product.

First, its not even trying to be a car. Second, it's likely not the best we can do, just the best thats been bothered because its not a particularly lucrative field since the vast bulk of the populace (like yourself) are unwilling to accept the trade-offs it would entail. Finally... why no? Seriously?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_Solar_Car_Team
http://www.saturnelectronics.com/pr_umsolarcar.htm
Yes... it is trying to be a car.... That is why car companies are sponsoring it; they want to one day build one sorta like this. All those logos on the side.... They call it the "solar car" team. Also it is the best they can do; this is cutting edge man and it's expensive. Speaking of which....

As for the trade offs, this thing cost $1 Million ($1,000,000).
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-06/detroits-latest-solar-powered-infinium-unfortunately-cant-be-bought

People can't afford that stuff dude. It is an entirely valid thing to be "unwilling to accept the trade-offs it would entail," when those trade offs include a million dollar price tag.... That said, safety and functionality are equally valid concerns.
(snip)

Of course it's a car.  Specifically, it's a race car.  (See the first sentence of http://solarcar.engin.umich.edu/the-car/.)  It's no more practical than a Formula 1 race car, and it's not meant to be.  It's meant to win a race.


I agree that these race cars are totally impractical as personal transportation, but I don't think any large car company expects to sell anything like that.  There's just not much solar energy available falling on the surface area of a car; any car that would go a reasonable distance on that energy must be exceptionally light.  Being much lighter than other cars on the road necessarily impacts the safety of the driver, regardless of how well the car is built.  And the heavier vehicles just aren't going anywhere any time soon: think delivery trucks, busses, people carpooling, shuttle-vans, carpenters and plumbers and the like with their trucks full of tools, and so on.

My guess is that the future of personal transportation will involve solar-powered cars, but they won't be directly solar-powered like these are.  Instead, we will drive electric cars, charged from the grid, and the electricity will increasingly come from renewable energy sources such as solar.  (I suppose by my definition I should say, people who live in the southwest U.S. will probably drive solar cars; in other regions they might be hydro, nuclear, wind, etc. - powered.)  Although there will be some hit in efficiency from transporting the energy through the grid, it makes more sense to put solar panels on fixed installations such as rooftops or dedicated plants with one- or two-axis trackers than to put them on every car to be carried around.  Actually, with triple-junction cells there might not even be a hit in overall efficiency -- those cells are more efficient when operated at a high concentration ratio, which is much easier to do on a fixed installation.

[Siquo]

Yeah we all knew that (well, except Truean, I was as puzzled as Glyph but chose to ignore). The real question is...

Will they fly?