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[kaijyuu]

What would you have said?  Other than "Fuck off and never talk to me again?"

I'd of used more swears.

[Siquo]

What would you have said?  Other than "Fuck off and never talk to me again?"

I'd of used more swears.

And maybe a swift kick in the nuts, to make the point.

[Lysabild]

As much as I like you and trust your word and know that you are sincere, do you think you are painting a neutral picture here? If he was on the forum, and we asked for his side, would he agree with it all?

My first relationship was many years earlier, we met as 12 year olds and all hell broke out as 13 year olds and we broke up just before 14.

First kiss, first sex, first everything for both of us. We went pretty far, and lasted 1½ year.

She got very very abusive, the longer we got in to the relationship and had to decide what I did and when, and when I said stop, she said something like "Conform or we're done." And so she broke up with me.

Years after we talked, and she percieved this very differently, I was perverted and only cared about myself, I broke up with her because I wouldn't accept her needs and it was my fault she had to control me because I liked watching pornography on the internet.

Who was right?

[Phmcw]

On the warning bit siquo, in my experience only two thing work : shouting a warning or shoving people out of the way.

You must be wrong on the evolutionary aspect of the thing because I rarely see anyone following an unusual advice.
They usually take it in it's social context and incomprehension ensue, just like in your example.

@ vector : yeah that's topically abusive behavior. As far as the situation was what you describe, you have taken the only logical path.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Who was right?

Neither of you, probably. That's a really young age to be in a sexual relationship, so I doubt both of your judgements.

[G-Flex]

As much as I like you and trust your word and know that you are sincere, do you think you are painting a neutral picture here? If he was on the forum, and we asked for his side, would he agree with it all?

This is a good point. Not that sharing experiences is worthless or anything, but I learned a long time ago not to totally trust one side of a relationship story even if it's from a friend of mine who I know well, especially if the situation sounds ugly. I severely doubt Vector is really lying or wrong about what she's saying, but you can't assume it to be terribly objective either, just by the nature of these things in general.

[Lysabild]

Who was right?

Neither of you, probably. That's a really young age to be in a sexual relationship, so I doubt both of your judgements.

Rather common here honestly and our judgements and our experiences are not really the same, might've been a stupid kid but my experiences were still real and rather clear in my mind.

As much as I like you and trust your word and know that you are sincere, do you think you are painting a neutral picture here? If he was on the forum, and we asked for his side, would he agree with it all?

This is a good point. Not that sharing experiences is worthless or anything, but I learned a long time ago not to totally trust one side of a relationship story even if it's from a friend of mine who I know well, especially if the situation sounds ugly. I severely doubt Vector is really lying or wrong about what she's saying, but you can't assume it to be terribly objective either, just by the nature of these things in general.

Yeah I'm not out to say it weren't hurtful for Vector at all and I'm rather certain she is telling the truth of her experiences.

[kaijyuu]

As much as I like you and trust your word and know that you are sincere, do you think you are painting a neutral picture here? If he was on the forum, and we asked for his side, would he agree with it all?

My first relationship was many years earlier, we met as 12 year olds and all hell broke out as 13 year olds and we broke up just before 14.

First kiss, first sex, first everything for both of us. We went pretty far, and lasted 1½ year.

She got very very abusive, the longer we got in to the relationship and had to decide what I did and when, and when I said stop, she said something like "Conform or we're done." And so she broke up with me.

Years after we talked, and she percieved this very differently, I was perverted and only cared about myself, I broke up with her because I wouldn't accept her needs and it was my fault she had to control me because I liked watching pornography on the internet.

Who was right?

And who's to say you're not painting her in an equally negative and one sided light?


I do see where you're coming from. Everyone who's had a nasty breakup thinks pretty terrible of their ex. But I think everyone here is mature enough to already know that... so it's kinda a moot point.

[Lysabild]

And who's to say you're not painting her in an equally negative and one sided light?

Uhh, that was my whole point?

[G-Flex]

Everyone who's had a nasty breakup thinks pretty terrible of their ex.

This is one thing I've always managed to avoid. I'm sure I have my limits, but I've had some pretty screwy break-ups without resorting to hating the other person or wishing ill will on them or thinking they're completely awful people, even if they pretty much tried to get me to. I don't really like to give up on people.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Who was right?

Neither of you, probably. That's a really young age to be in a sexual relationship, so I doubt both of your judgements.

Rather common here honestly and our judgements and our experiences are not really the same, might've been a stupid kid but my experiences were still real and rather clear in my mind.

I don't mean in the societal manner as being young, I mean developmentally. That's still in the up-curve of adolescence, when one's mind is constantly clouded by a hormonal haze. At that stage of the brain's development, your long-term memory won't be very concrete. There are only a handful of details that are still clear to me as being real in my memory of being 12, and I'm only 17. You're even older, so while your overall memory of events is probably close enough to reality, I know enough about the fallibility of the human mind to have to doubt either you nor your ex-partner have a memory of what happened that is completely in-line with what actually happened. That's not even getting into the possibility of either of you not having learned the full story of your relationship's faults in the first place.

[GlyphGryph]

I dunno, I had a pretty nasty break up, and neither of us seem to think terribly of each other (though we certainly did for the rest of the year when it happened!)

It honestly just sounds like Vector was dating an asshole. An asshole in exactly the quantity and quality she described? Debatable. Hell, maybe he was worse.

[Lysabild]

Everyone who's had a nasty breakup thinks pretty terrible of their ex.

This is one thing I've always managed to avoid. I'm sure I have my limits, but I've had some pretty screwy break-ups without resorting to hating the other person or wishing ill will on them or thinking they're completely awful people, even if they pretty much tried to get me to. I don't really like to give up on people.

I don't hate any of my ex's eithers, I'm just saying that we percieved our relationship and it's end very differently, a thing I found out talking to the girl many years after.

Rather common here honestly and our judgements and our experiences are not really the same, might've been a stupid kid but my experiences were still real and rather clear in my mind.

I don't mean in the societal manner as being young, I mean developmentally. That's still in the up-curve of adolescence, when one's mind is constantly clouded by a hormonal haze. At that stage of the brain's development, your long-term memory won't be very concrete. There are only a handful of details that are still clear to me as being real in my memory of being 12, and I'm only 17. You're even older, so while your overall memory of events is probably close enough to reality, I know enough about the fallibility of the human mind to have to doubt either you nor your ex-partner have a memory of what happened that is completely in-line with what actually happened. That's not even getting into the possibility of either of you not having learned the full story of your relationship's faults in the first place.

No but then what does the fact that the relationship was sexual have to do with anything?

Even so I do remember rather well that year because it was hugely important to shaping my life and my later teenage years. I remember it better than the mental abuse of my stepdad, my brothers mental illness and all other really importanty things around that age that fundementally changed my life.

I dunno, I had a pretty nasty break up, and neither of us seem to think terribly of each other (though we certainly did for the rest of the year when it happened!)

It honestly just sounds like Vector was dating an asshole. An asshole in exactly the quantity and quality she described? Debatable. Hell, maybe he was worse.

Again, assholes aren't assholes because they're assholes. Read Siquo's post again if need be, he explained it better than I'll be able to.

[Vector]

I am telling you the closest thing to the truth that I can.  I'm not perfect, just human, and the stuff that merely pissed me off about him is not stuff I'm telling you about.  That stuff is just filed under "relationship stuff that pissed me off."

Even leading me, multiple times, from day 1, to question my mental health, an extreme lack of sympathy/empathy in general.  Those were things I've put in a gray area.  Never telling me I was beautiful, pretty, or anything else, while letting me know that he greeted his coworkers with "handsome man" or "beautiful woman" (based on Chinese habits, apparently), also gray area.  Refusing to take down a picture of his ex-girlfriend while there were no pictures of me in the house, gray area.  Verbally attacking me because I said I had a hard time getting along with his parents and generally putting down my family, gray area.  Saying he'd enjoy destroying my best friend's relationship, gray area.  Breaking up with me by email?  Gray area.  Same goes for gloating over his good psychiatric health insurance when I was desperately trying to get help.

Those were just dick moves.

I ask a dude if he'd seriously hurt me--dragging me around by my hair, threatening to throw me out the window, snarling like an animal--no, sweethearts, that's black.  If he'd said "Dammit, Vector, sometimes I just want to shake some sense into you," that would have been gray in my book.

He admitted to intentional coercion and manipulation.  He accused me of it to the point where I could barely talk straight for fearing that he'd decide I was trying to maneuver him in one way or another.  I couldn't say a word.  I still resort to hyper-precise speech because I am so damned terrified of being misinterpreted and causing an avalanche of anger.

Sometimes, he'd chew me out for eight hours straight, letting me know everything that was wrong with me.  I can promise you I didn't do that.  I could barely hold a two-minute conversation with anyone.

So there you have it.  I'm not joking, I'm not kidding, and I don't like to demonize.  It's up to you to decide what you believe, but I'm not recounting this story out of hate.

[G-Flex]

I don't mean in the societal manner as being young, I mean developmentally. That's still in the up-curve of adolescence, when one's mind is constantly clouded by a hormonal haze. At that stage of the brain's development, your long-term memory won't be very concrete. There are only a handful of details that are still clear to me as being real in my memory of being 12, and I'm only 17. You're even older, so while your overall memory of events is probably close enough to reality, I know enough about the fallibility of the human mind to have to doubt either you nor your ex-partner have a memory of what happened that is completely in-line with what actually happened. That's not even getting into the possibility of either of you not having learned the full story of your relationship's faults in the first place.

Judging by my own experiences and those of people I know, 12-15 is pretty much the stupidest, foggiest period people generally go through in their lives. I barely remember middle school except that it was hell and everyone managed to be even more stupid than they were a few years prior (you're still damn young, plus your brains are getting screwed up with puberty, which you barely comprehend happening to you and which changes your mind and body faster than you can react or handle, and the crazy-stupid social pressures of middle school and early high school, where kids haven't yet learned what actually matters in life but have learned how to judge each other based on how baggy your pants are). As far as early high school was concerned, things were a little bit better in terms of kids being total asses, but we were still a bunch of idiots.

So yeah, judging from what I know, I would not trust any 12-14 year old in a serious or sexual relationship. At that age, you're just barely coming to grips with the fact that you have sexuality, and have the approximate emotional maturity of a woodchuck.

So there you have it.  I'm not joking, I'm not kidding, and I don't like to demonize.  It's up to you to decide what you believe, but I'm not recounting this story out of hate.

I don't think anyone is accusing you of that at all.