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[Kay12]

When I was a kid, our teacher practiced misandry without probably even realizing it. We had a few really wild girls on our class, but whenever something bad happened, the teacher was always questioning the boys first. Of course, statistically that probably made sense - my evil gender did cause a lot more trouble (while I was quite calm personally). However, one time went too far. When no one was around, two girls broke the window of our classroom. When the teacher questioned us about it, the guys didn't know and the girls wouldn't tell. Collective punishment for the win - every boy got detention because the teacher believed it was certainly one of us. Luckily, after the sentence was passed, the pair grew a spine and confessed to the teacher, resulting to our abolition from that penalty. The teacher forgave them because they confessed to clear our names (he was fond of these traditional fairytale morals and probably would've forgiven us as well, if the situation was reversed).

I guess collective punishment is another thing that's no longer allowed... I think nowadays teachers need to know the actual culprit to pass "justice", at least here in Finland - officially, at least.

[Leafsnail]

If we get back to the original matter at hand... the classic "female stereotype" in videogames is a lot worse than the classic male stereotype.  I'll agree that both are usually equally shallow, however, it gives the impression that men can go out there and do things, and overcome anything with their sheer determination and strength.  Women can look pretty and wait to get rescued (and nurture their young in some cases).  In terms of role models... I do feel that the male model, shallow as it is, gives a far better example.

As a non-stereotypical man it bothers me that people think I need to be like that. I can only imagine what a woman would make of it...

My mother thought the advert gave the impression that the goal of Lynx was to knock out girls through asphyxiation.  If you've ever smelt the stuff you'll begin to think it's not so unlikely...

[Siquo]

If we get back to the original matter at hand... the classic "female stereotype" in videogames is a lot worse than the classic male stereotype.  I'll agree that both are usually equally shallow, however, it gives the impression that men can go out there and do things, and overcome anything with their sheer determination and strength.  Women can look pretty and wait to get rescued (and nurture their young in some cases).  In terms of role models... I do feel that the male model, shallow as it is, gives a far better example.

Depends on what is "better". I think the real problem here is that the stereotypical male role is defined as "better" than the stereotypical female role.

Let's see how Solid Snake deals with problems when his character is injected into The Sims. Probably not as the game intended. A female character in any shootemup might try (and succeed) to reason with the invading aliens, resulting in mutual understanding and a symbiotic peace in the universe, instead of killing them all based on the probably false stereotype of genocidal aliens.

I personally don't think the stereotypes are the problem, but the value that is attached to them. A society that values violence (oh yay it's actually a thinly veiled USA bash who could've guessed? ) will rate male stereotypes as higher, a society that values compromise and peace might value female stereotypes more.

[Leafsnail]

If there actually was a female videogame character who negotiated for peace and mutual understanding?  Sure, that would be awesome.  I love pacifistic videogame protagonists (right now I can think of... one series that employs them, and it's virtually always been a male protagonist).

On the other hand, that isn't what they do (at least traditionally - there might be some exceptions).  They're just sex objects or things to be rescued, usually.  They support the violence just as much as the male characters, except they're too weak to dish it out themselves.

[Siquo]

Except there are exceptions, so we're even talking about a stereotypical game.

So the stereotypical game has stereotypical males&females? Kinda redundant conclusion

[Siquo]

Oh, and in COMPLETELY unrelated news, a small depiction of what is going on.

[Andir]

If there actually was a female videogame character who negotiated for peace and mutual understanding?  Sure, that would be awesome.  I love pacifistic videogame protagonists (right now I can think of... one series that employs them, and it's virtually always been a male protagonist).

On the other hand, that isn't what they do (at least traditionally - there might be some exceptions).  They're just sex objects or things to be rescued, usually.  They support the violence just as much as the male characters, except they're too weak to dish it out themselves.

Sorry Vector, I know I said I'd stay away, but I'm interested in Leaf's impression of the game Catherine: (and that's all I will talk about)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_%28video_game%29
The Female here uses her sex to "control" men who are interpreted as Sheep in the dream world.

It's mainly a puzzle game, but you play as a mostly naked man using a pillow to cover his underwear (I wonder if the original was meant to be totally naked...)

It doesn't play on stereotypical roles (the overly masculine man saving the girl...)

[Personal Opinion: While an interesting story (to me), this comes off to me as being too far past the "equality" barrier.]

[grr, not even getting into the Tea Party hate.  IE: the people hating the Tea Party... Siquo, wasn't it you that said something about generalizing people based on association a page back? ... just pointing that out.  I'm not discussing it here.]

[Leafsnail]

Except there are exceptions, so we're even talking about a stereotypical game.

Can you name me some, please?

So the stereotypical game has stereotypical males&females? Kinda redundant conclusion

My point was that the female stereotype is worse than the male stereotype.  The thing you just said was an implicit assumption in my post, not a conclusion.

@Andir: I haven't played the game, so I can't really comment on it.  It looks kindof like you have a female villain...?

[Lysabild]

If we get back to the original matter at hand... the classic "female stereotype" in videogames is a lot worse than the classic male stereotype.  I'll agree that both are usually equally shallow, however, it gives the impression that men can go out there and do things, and overcome anything with their sheer determination and strength.  Women can look pretty and wait to get rescued (and nurture their young in some cases).  In terms of role models... I do feel that the male model, shallow as it is, gives a far better example.

First, I'm male and would pick the second job of the two, getting rescued and taking care of kids sounds awesome, too bad I can't get pregnant :/


Secondarily, Siquo is right, what is wrong with being weak and being rescued? Why is it a better example to run around and be a dick, shooting everyone in your way?

Also, MANY games have females on equal standing for importance, Diablo 2, Oblivion, Fallout 1,2,3(These are very realistic in social representation(atleast 1/2 was) and therefore includes all the negative and all the posetive about BOTH genders and their culturally assigned roles). Are you gonna whine too that in a medieval rpg that females aren't warriors and why queens in EU3 can't be generals? Would you say it is wrong to apply realism to games? Do I need to explain you why women traditionally aren't warriors? (Not that it matters in Modernday, given overpopulation.)

Really I'm not seeing it. I loved the hispanic female soldier in Aliens vs. Predator human campaign (The remake one) Oh and theres Fable 3 too, where you can be both genders, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and honestly I just don't follow the arguement.

[Siquo]

[grr, not even getting into the Tea Party hate.  IE: the people hating the Tea Party... Siquo, wasn't it you that said something about generalizing people based on association a page back? ... just pointing that out.  I'm not discussing it here.]

I don't hate the Tea Party, nor the People that adhere to it, where'd I say that?
It's a set of ideals that happens to lead the current western economy to ruin, via the route displayed. There's no hate involved (from my side, at least).

Can you name me some, please?

Not really. Most games I play are stupid and violent and thus catered towards a male audience. How about The Sims? Playing the male stereotype will get less good results than a female stereotype.

My point was that the female stereotype is worse than the male stereotype.

Yeah, and I made "worse" relative to the game. As most games are violent in nature, and male stereotypes tend to be better at that, they come off as "better".

Ninja'd by Lysabild with whom (with who? whom with? My English, it fails me) I agree, once again.

[Andir]

@Andir: I haven't played the game, so I can't really comment on it.  It looks kindof like you have a female villain...?

I played the demo... most of it.  I got tired of the game component (It's Q-Bert, with a mostly naked man) so I ended up quitting the game.  I don't know what the 8(?) endings are, but it definitely plays on the idea that a female could use her sexuality to get men to do her bidding.  I know this was brought up earlier as a topic.  Back to why I brought this up though, I do think this is a female stereotype that could be seen by some feminists as "better" or an alternative to the "rugged man" sense of control.  Instead of the man beating people to get the reward, it focuses on a feminine influence manipulating men to complete objectives for some gain.  Sort of a role reversal, if you will.

[grr, not even getting into the Tea Party hate.  IE: the people hating the Tea Party... Siquo, wasn't it you that said something about generalizing people based on association a page back? ... just pointing that out.  I'm not discussing it here.]

I don't hate the Tea Party, nor the People that adhere to it, where'd I say that?
It's a set of ideals that happens to lead the current western economy to ruin, via the route displayed. There's no hate involved (from my side, at least).

I never said you did hate them.  (I don't understand why people read these things into what I wrote.)  You did, however post a comic that depicts the Tea Party with blinders on pulling the world into a pit... I would say that's pretty damning.

[RedKing]

You did, however post a comic that depicts the Tea Party with blinders on pulling the world into a pit... I would say that's pretty damning.

You misspelled "accurate".

[Andir]

You did, however post a comic that depicts the Tea Party with blinders on pulling the world into a pit... I would say that's pretty damning.

You misspelled "accurate".

I'm not arguing this topic here.  [end]

[Siquo]

grr, not even getting into the Tea Party hate.  IE: the people hating the Tea Party... Siquo

I never said you did hate them.  (I don't understand why people read these things into what I wrote.)

Yeah, I know it's a bit out of context, but you're reading a lot more into my post than I'm reading into yours (as in: drawing false conclusions). Anyhow, it's a progressive rage thread, and that should not be read as "raging against progressives", so yeah, not commenting does seem like the best option

[freeformschooler]

I have nothing against the Tea Party, some of their ideals I can sort of agree with, I just have a minor vendetta against certain members of theirs. Don't hate on the group, hate on the person, etc.