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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 877983 times)

Virex

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2775 on: August 06, 2011, 05:19:50 pm »

Nobody really knows what makes a tree a tree. Sure, there's the official definition that says it needs to have one trunk and has to grow over a certain height, but even Taxonomists don't adhere to that definition. Yet everyone can tell a tree from a shrub when presented with one of each. It's the same with genders. Identifying yourself as male or female doesn't require an objective definition because the human mind doesn't work that way. What it does require, well, nobody knows, but it likely has to do with the same system we use to identify and categorize objects and concepts. (If you're interested in this line of thinking, you'll want to read some books by Immanuel Kant, which reminds me I should do so too...)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 05:22:46 pm by Virex »
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2776 on: August 06, 2011, 05:29:56 pm »

Hurm... would A Critique of Pure Reason fit the bill?  I think that's the only thing of his I own.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2777 on: August 06, 2011, 05:31:02 pm »

Truean, I think you'll really like that book I suggested for you.  Really, really.

[nod nod] I think so too. I'm getting a copy of it now.

However, I know they won't let me take Hormone Replacement Therapy or undergo Sexual Reassignment Surgery unless I tell them what they want to hear. So as far as they are concerned and to obtain those results, "I believe this entirely...." :P
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2778 on: August 06, 2011, 05:31:43 pm »

Haha, yeah.  Well, that's the way it is.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Siquo

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2779 on: August 06, 2011, 06:54:30 pm »

Gay Canal parade just came by, and here's some american signs.

Warning: Positive links, nothing to rage about.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2780 on: August 06, 2011, 07:09:14 pm »

Those are awesome!  Thanks for sharing.


By the way, for anyone who has access to an academic library, I strongly recommend Susan Sontag's Illness as Metaphor.  It's about 85 sparsely written pages long, and explains a lot about our aesthetic standards.  Lots of applications to feminism, as well.


EDITED TO ADD: Photographs of where children sleep around the world.

Full-view.  It's worth it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 12:16:01 am by Vector »
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2781 on: August 07, 2011, 07:06:59 am »

Quote
EDITED TO ADD: Photographs of where children sleep around the world.
And this is basically why I just tune out most of the social dwarin/capitalist crap I hear. Don't get me wrong, I actually like some of the ideas of capitalism, in terms of logistics (resource management) but the "philosophy" behind it is utter crap given the actuality of the world.

All Excuses and justifications; no apologies
At some point, there simply is a massive divide in wealth especially on a global scale and everyone is faced with this eventually. People deal with this in different ways and the "capitalism as a philosophy" is probably the worst way. Basically, it makes a false appeal to "merit" namely that the speaker has it and other people don't and this is why everyone is where they are with what they have: they deserve it.... It presupposes perfect fairness in an utterly unfair universe. This is especially true in an all too Hobbesian world where life is short and brutal.... Thus, while capitalism may be an effective tool if properly regulated by a government, it is merely the lesser of evils not the ideal (Screw you Ayn Rand).

Concerning the real knowledge of the world and its inequality people typically have three reactions. They either don't know, ignore it, or justify it. This justification is based on the laughable assumption that life is somehow fair that the speaker "earned" what they have and "others" didn't but could if they weren't lazy.... This allows us to both praise ourselves and scorn others, our two favorite pastimes, justifying the state of the world with no personal blame while assigning plenty of blame. Do I even have to say that opportunities to earn aren't equal or even close. The 7 year old working in a granite quarry instead of going to school illustrates this nicely but I suppose that kid is "lucky" to have a job instead of outright starving. Meanwhile I've seen homeless people eating out of trash cans not 5 feet away from morons at bus or train stations complaining about how their Ipad is good but "needs to be better...."

The causes of being GLBT:
The most impressive thing I've heard on topic, from a straight guy no less, "Who gives a shit? I don't care and it's not like it's wrong...."

Who cares and why does it matter given that it isn't wrong? You've basically got three camps "it's a choice, a social construct, or biological," and each has its own dangers. The problem of saying "it's a choice" is that people say it's the "wrong choice," and people need to be "convinced" of this. The problem with saying it is biological or a social construct is that this still leads to people saying it is wrong and trying to "cure" "the condition." Ultimately, GLBT people aren't hurting anyone, who cares why they are that way and isn't it telling that rather than just chill out and be more accepting, we're going to try to study this. Let's waste enormous amounts of time changing it in complex ways instead of just choosing to be ok with it...?

If it is a "choice," then that just opens up the door for all kinds of "persuasion" up to and including torture, clearly a bad result. Also, putting aside the fact that straight people can't choose to be gay anymore than gay people can choose to be straight, it is a lovely way to blame GLBT people for existing as such.

"Cure" is just as bad an idea as "persuasion" and this comes from the theory that its socially constructed or biological. This implies that there are factors we can understand and alter to "prevent" people from being gay and it isn't that far of a leap for most people to say we "should" do this. Again, let's consider tampering with someone else's genetics or upbringing before we consider simply adjusting our attitudes.... [sigh]
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 07:22:08 am by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Gamerlord

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2782 on: August 07, 2011, 07:29:43 am »

Okay Truean... What do you think?

Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2783 on: August 07, 2011, 07:53:05 am »

Honestly I don't care what the cause is, but the simple solution is for people to chill out. Me liking men and wanting to live as a woman are probably the most personal aspects of my life, which other people have no business about.... Moreover, it doesn't effect my ability to do my job at all, so people shouldn't care if that is who they are working with/hiring.

Objectively, being GLBT isn't that big of a deal but people make it a big deal and that needs to stop. I don't protest how other people live or love, especially when it has nothing to do with me. I don't impose my religious beliefs on others by law while half assedly denying I'm doing that. It really doesn't effect anyone else if I love a man and am his wife.... Two consenting adults....
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

MonkeyHead

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2784 on: August 07, 2011, 08:19:45 am »

In the words of a poster on the office door of my openly gay compsci co-worker: "Some people are gay. Get over it."

Virex

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2785 on: August 07, 2011, 08:26:49 am »

The most impressive thing I've heard on topic, from a straight guy no less, "Who gives a shit? I don't care and it's not like it's wrong...."
While thinking exactly that, I don't think I could get myself to actually say it. Saying you don't care that someone's gay feels like you're copping out while that person is probably in need of psychological support. It just doesn't sit well with me to leave someone dangling like that...
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Pnx

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2786 on: August 07, 2011, 09:02:11 am »

I am soooo envious of vector, I used to have a good memory, but it became fuzzy and now I'm all scatter brained. I'll never be anywhere near that accomplished because I'm lazy as fuck. Then there's a third point why she's better than me somewhere.
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rhesusmacabre

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2787 on: August 07, 2011, 10:36:47 am »

In the words of a poster on the office door of my openly gay compsci co-worker: "Some people are gay. Get over it."

...or in the words on the T-shirt of the president of the English Chess Federation, until told he couldn't wear it.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2788 on: August 07, 2011, 10:42:22 am »

Pnx, we all (well, most of us) have to live with the knowledge that Vector is better than us. It is simply our burden, and it probably rests lighter than Vector's burden of continuing to be awesome in all the ways.
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The Doctor

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2789 on: August 07, 2011, 10:56:38 am »

I want to know what causes homosexuality. Just for the sake of knowing.

Plus, if we can make everyone (who wants to be) bi-sexual, then hey. Why not? More opportunities for love.
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