Careful with GG. Dude could possibly be trollin' given that he may well have been the straw that got the thread locked last time on P 168.
welcome to the thread, glad you could join.
crafty escape!
What's this? I have an excuse to report someone for my own sanity and instead I'm just locking the thread? How generous, Vector! You even got out the lacy tablecloths and garlic tea for the special occasion!
And the tea cakes with cumin and bacon, Mr. Fillobith! And the tea cakes with suet and anise. Now let's all quietly, quietly go down this rabbit hole so we can meet Miss Vector and all her hats for the party.
I've already discussed that with vector, and i am actually here for real conversation.
I haven't been on the computer since two days ago, I think, camp and what not.
Ancient Greece had all kinds of characters, many of whom were gay as hell. Didn't his mom try to hide Achilles by disguising him as a girl among the temple maidens before Troy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21257028/Discussion-Questions-on-Edith-Hamilton%E2%80%99s-Mythology-Directions-Answer-Each-Question
"Achilles’ mother had been told that if her son went to Troy, he would die. Therefore she
dressed Achilles in girl’s clothing and hid him among the maidens at the court of King
Lycomedes. Odysseus dressed as a peddler and went to find him. Odysseus hid some
weapons among the jewels he was peddling, and Achilles immediately gave himself away
by showing interest in the weapons. He was easily persuaded to accompany the Greeks to
Troy."
Also Achilles didn't mind wearing dresses. Sure, they try to say his mom was behind this but he never tried to run away. He liked it and she was accepting him.... He got along VERY well as bestest friends with the girls and despite being a boy he never tried to make any advances on any of the maidens, not a one. Gee it's almost like a gay fitting right in with the girls.... He's basically in the girl's locker room at an all girl's school and NOT A DAMN THING HAPPENS! GAAAAY! He just kept putting on his pretty clothes day after day.... It's been argued he was good at fighting because his competition was too focused on being "macho" and Achillies didn't care about that as much as he cared about where his sword was. Sure, he wanted fame and the only kind of fame in his day was from fighting....
Then there is the fact the Achilles was totally gay with Patroclus ("sanitized" in the western translations) and that's why he went apeshit murdering Hector, desecrated his body and basically went nuts. He wouldn't fight for Agamemnon for women, for money, for anything because he didn't like him and showed it by being catty, but once his boyfriend got killed, shit totally hit the fan and he started killing people left and right....
Let's see, wants fame/attention,Doesn't everyone? in drag Hey, to each his own., catty There are a rare breed of guys who aren't douchebags, y'know., and motivated to fight when his best friend/lover gets killed but not for money or women Patroclus was most likely in an ancient form of what we call today a "bromance"., doesn't ever try to get with a girl despite being more or less in the girl's locker room at the all girl school and being best friends with all those girls = not just gay, but GAAAAAAAY! Heroes of ancient nations tend to be celibate.
I still accept your point, but Achilles was not gay at all. Sure, bro had some weird shit going on there, but still.
Shitty shitpost or are you serious? Interesting with how the bold text at the bottom was yours but meh. Crass denial does not a rebuttal make.... Also "Heroes tended to be celibate" huh? The hell are you talking about: that meant you got the girl! Dude did you read that book at all. Practically everyone in it had a wife or girlfriend, Odysseus, Hector, Agamemnon, Ajax (both of them), and tons of others all had wives or girlfriends or at least were talked about having sex with girls. Achilles is the only one in the whole damn book who actively turns down sex with a girl and is unattached.
Achilles absolutely dug the dudes....
So your mom wants to "hide you from the war...." Naturally, you need to be "a girl" in a girl's school
instead of just hanging out in some other kingdom, especially since they had the resources to travel. Na, we don't need to go anywhere, just give me that dress. Also all those girls I'm constantly around and who would probably figure it out eventually, yeah not only are they all my bestest friends, but I don't think I want to do anything naughty with any of them evers....
No no, we don't need to hide me somewhere else as a boy, just give me that dress and let me wear one all the time....
"I'm not gay at alllllllllllllllllll, but how's my singing voice?"
Wow, does it just blow everyone's damn mind that one of the greatest warriors in history liked men, that this fact didn't detract one bit from his fighting capabilities and may have enhanced them? Doesn't this turn Don't ask; don't tell straight on its ear? Fuck bigotry....
Yes gay guys can be cool! Deal with it. Thinking the gay guy is cool doesn't mean jack about your own sexuality.
Achilles had every chance to shack up with tons of women and he didn't take any of those chances. Odysseus, Hector, Agamemnon, Ajax (both of them), and tons of others all had wives or girlfriends or at least were talked about having sex with girls. Gee, of all the main characters only Achilles wasn't? Combined with his past history of turning down every chance for sex with a woman, I'm seeing a pretty good case for gay.
Gay people can totally fight:
http://news.yahoo.com/military-members-march-san-diego-gay-pride-000617150.htmlIs ggamer really serious? All I see him do is troll. Atleast I hope it's trolling.
At this point, when I see people say this I wonder if they are trolling.
Except you know they probably aren't....
I'll also add that it generally only involved intercrural sex, as penetrative sex was considered demeaning to the penetrated.
It was fine to perform with women, though, because women were pretty much on an equal standing with slaves in the society.
I admit I'm somewhat fuzzy on this. I thought it varied depending on what culture and in Greece what region of Greece you came from. I remember hearing something about Dionysian Temple dominated areas being cooler and not subscribing to this. It's been a while since I've studied ancient Greece though and this was one of the side details in the literature I remember. I might be wrong.
Sad to say this is still the way a lot of people think and why a feminine gay guy is sometimes called a "bitch." [headdesk] Yeah, this kinda sucks if you understand kinda to mean majorly... I have been called this before in this context.... I hate it.
I still accept your point, but Achilles was not gay at all. Sure, bro had some weird shit going on there, but still.
Trying to impose modern Western notions of sexual orientation on people who were 1) living centuries or millennia-ago in a very different culture, and 2) fictional, is an exercise in futility. Sorry, but the ancient Greeks just didn't see sexuality the way people in the 21st-century Anglophone world do. Asking whether someone from that time and place was "gay" or "straight" is just plain silly, and odds are neither answer is a good fit.
EDIT: To be honest, I'm a little concerned at Truean's surprising conflation of non-normative gender-related behavior (a boy wearing woman's clothes, hanging out with women a lot, etc.) with homosexuality.
Eh, actually I realize that somehow "most cross dressers are actually straight." This somehow seems to ignore drag queens and the whole great big thing that goes along with that but meh.... The point is, he was totally in the girl's locker room at the girl's school and never tried anything, ever. He turned down every chance he had at sex with a girl. Maybe it's not conclusive but the totality of the circumstances doesn't point to straight and this little fact doesn't point to straight....
Yeah, they had different views of sexuality, but that doesn't mean there weren't some people who were only attracted to the opposite sex and some who were only attracted to the same sex. Further bi people still existed back then. It doesn't matter how you label it, the preference is still there....
I completely, absolutely don't buy this theory personally by the way of "sexuality was different back then, because it has been used as an anti gay tool forever. It's not hard to see once you make the connection. "If sexuality was different back then, then sexuality can be different in the future and we can just make sexuality different to make there be no gays!" You can call it whatever you want, there absolutely were gays back then. Cultural practices differed, labels differed but some guys liked guys and some girls liked girls.... All that changed was the way you expressed it.
Oh, come on.... Sure it's been 3,000 years and we can't know for sure, but it's a pretty rational argument overall.