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[Truean]

...What privileges are those?

Well I guess they get to throw parades. But so does everyone else...

Evidently he's mad the gays get a pride parade when the "March for Jesus" isn't allowed anymore on the main street. This is because the last time they did all kinds of violence broke out as a direct result of this parade .....http://blogout.justout.com/?tag=brazil

The best part? They didn't ban the March for Jesus, they just moved it to the north side of town.... The gays had nothing to do with the parade being moved.... Meh.

[ggamer]

...What privileges are those?

Well I guess they get to throw parades. But so does everyone else...

The privilege of being a minority, of course. Because being a marginalized minority means you get to complain, and us white, heterosexual, upper-middle-class Americans want that too!

I think the whole thing was probably just a joke, and then someone went too far.

[snark]Guess she shoulda thought about that before she went and got pregnant, huh?[/snark]

I do like this argument.  I mean, clearly if you get pregnant you should be prepared to be hit by whatever arbitrary thing the state government wants to throw at you.  Personally, I think we should shoot people who drink wine.  I mean, it'd be bad for them, but they should've thought about that before they started drinking wine, huh?

I think the analogy is sort of lost there. It would be more like describing kidney cancer in excruciating detail to someone who drinks too much wine.

They don't like it, but they should have thought about that before they went and became a drunkard.

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/sao-paulo-council-calls-heterosexual-pride-day-220929986.html

The privilege of being a minority, of course. Because being a marginalized minority means you get to complain, and us white, heterosexual, upper-middle-class Americans want that too!

But there are a Brazilian of them!

[kaijyuu]

[snark]Guess she shoulda thought about that before she went and got pregnant, huh?[/snark]

I do like this argument.  I mean, clearly if you get pregnant you should be prepared to be hit by whatever arbitrary thing the state government wants to throw at you.  Personally, I think we should shoot people who drink wine.  I mean, it'd be bad for them, but they should've thought about that before they started drinking wine, huh?

I think the analogy is sort of lost there. It would be more like describing kidney cancer in excruciating detail to someone who drinks too much wine.

They don't like it, but they should have thought about that before they went and became a drunkard.

Frankly both analogies suck. The consequences of drinking too much wine and the consequences of unprotected sex are not comparable. At all.

[Leafsnail]

I think the analogy is sort of lost there. It would be more like describing kidney cancer in excruciating detail to someone who drinks too much wine.

They don't like it, but they should have thought about that before they went and became a drunkard.

Uh... no.  That makes no sense at all.  Why describe kidney cancer in excruciating detail to someone who drinks "too much"?  If they end up getting it then they will suffer kidney cancer and there's no need to lecture them about it.  If they don't get it then you're just wasting their time.  I don't see why they "should have thought about that" when being lectured by some random person is not a natural consequence of drinking at all.

...Weird analogy aside, a woman does not sign a contract saying "I am prepared to go through any random things the government wants me to go through" when she gets pregnant.  She has no obligation to consider all the ways in which a government might try to make life difficult for her (the stuff about ultrasound and doctors trying to guilt trip you?  Not a natural consequence of pregnancy, in the same way that being shot is not a natural consequence of drinking wine).

[Truean]

Careful with GG. Dude could possibly be trollin' given that he may well have been the straw that got the thread locked last time on P 168.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

welcome to the thread, glad you could join.

_{crafty escape!}

What's this?  I have an excuse to report someone for my own sanity and instead I'm just locking the thread?  How generous, Vector!  You even got out the lacy tablecloths and garlic tea for the special occasion!

And the tea cakes with cumin and bacon, Mr. Fillobith!  And the tea cakes with suet and anise.  Now let's all quietly, quietly go down this rabbit hole so we can meet Miss Vector and all her hats for the party.

http://news.yahoo.com/sao-paulo-council-calls-heterosexual-pride-day-220929986.html

The privilege of being a minority, of course. Because being a marginalized minority means you get to complain, and us white, heterosexual, upper-middle-class Americans want that too!

But there are a Brazilian of them!

That's terrible semi-punitude Nadaka, also hilarious, but I'm easily entertained.

Truthfully though, the "minorities are privileged" gripe is too widespread for my tastes. I've actually been told I have the exact same "sacred" marriage rights as everyone else: I can marry a woman. I just.... head ... hurty.... argument... no sense makey.... Gah.

Ok, let's go so far as to give the people who make this argument the benefit of every doubt, reasonable and unreasonable, and forget for a second all the other religions/cultures in the world who have their own completely independent and valid marriage traditions. Let's also forget the "marriage is secular" argument for a minute too. Let's say for a second that marriage is "sacred," and that Christians invented it. That's all the more reason to allow gays to do it, because otherwise the system is completely unworkable.

If marriage is "sacred" and "Christian" then this means I've got a trifecta of horrible options under the "gays can marry the opposite sex like everyone else" view: celibacy, sin, or sacrilege. The celibacy option is the least practical, because at some point, people are going to have sex, period. The sin option appears to make sex outside of wedlock a sin/crime and given that gays can never be married to each other, we're right back to celibacy as a way to avoid this which... eh, not working. Finally we have the sacrilege option as a way to  appear to avoid the "sin" option which is a fraudulent marriage and doing exactly what I'm being told I have the right to do, "marry a woman." If marriage is sacred then doing so for a fraudulent reason is sacrilege not to mention completely unfair to the girl in question and me.

There have been way too many marriages ending in divorce when the "beard" finally figures out she's been tricked and used, her husband is actually gay and thus was never capable of loving her. Hey, the gay guy was just doing exactly what society said he had the same rights as everyone else to do, marry someone of the opposite sex. He was kinda forced to. When you actually look at the reality of this option, it is completely unworkable and unfair. If you don't agree, then ladies, form a line to my right for a sham marriage to me knowing I will never love you or have sex with you ever... Your life will be a lie, just like mine.... I offer you the same consolation I take, the knowledge that you too can see the bottom of the vodka bottle repeatedly....

This goes right back to the "extra privileges gay people have" BS. Namely, this line goes something like, everyone can marry someone of the opposite sex and gays want the extra right to marry someone of the same sex..... [headdesk] Clearly we need another parade to protest these "extra privileges." [sigh]

[kaijyuu]

EDIT: Bleh I'm rambling about random stuff that doesn't make sense. Nevermind.

[sonerohi]

http://news.yahoo.com/sao-paulo-council-calls-heterosexual-pride-day-220929986.html

The privilege of being a minority, of course. Because being a marginalized minority means you get to complain, and us white, heterosexual, upper-middle-class Americans want that too!

But there are a Brazilian of them!

-relevant insights-

Gay people have every right to "the sanctity of marriage", but good luck finding any of that sanctity with how badly marriage is fucked over. We are the Titanic here, convinced we can bail out the water as long as we don't let any [metaphor-relevant-collective-noun] help us on it.

[Truean]

kaijyuu:

Actually, I saw your post and started to respond before I got edit ninja'd . It wasn't bad and just pointed out more of the illogic.... As for the "jealousy" thing given how many "straight" congressmen have been writing naughty emails to their teenage male pages, or otherwise caught being not so straight, I wouldn't entirely write it off....

[Blargityblarg]

I think a day's waiting period is sensible; only because it's a decision that takes a reasonable amount of effort to reverse, and I hate it when people make hasty decisions on the basis of emotion. The ultrasound and 'education', though, is just perverse.

[Nadaka]

You are welcome Truean, today is my "I can't take it any more, I have to do something silly" day.

[freeformschooler]

If marriage is "sacred" and "Christian" then this means I've got a trifecta of horrible options under the "gays can marry the opposite sex like everyone else" view: celibacy, sin, or sacrilege. The celibacy option is the least practical, because at some point, people are going to have sex, period. The sin option appears to make sex outside of wedlock a sin/crime and given that gays can never be married to each other, we're right back to celibacy as a way to avoid this which... eh, not working. Finally we have the sacrilege option as a way to  appear to avoid the "sin" option which is a fraudulent marriage and doing exactly what I'm being told I have the right to do, "marry a woman." If marriage is sacred then doing so for a fraudulent reason is sacrilege not to mention completely unfair to the girl in question and me.

I think the collective group of Christian fundamentalists who both

1) Realize & understand this
2) Still hold onto their anti-gay-marriage beliefs

are usually the ones who are actively trying to "convert" homosexuals to heterosexuality.

An interesting progressive rage though, on that note. No matter how bad Truean's life is when it comes to dealing with the social and legal ramifications of having an attraction to the opposite gender, fact is I'm pretty sure he's currently pretty independent, what with being a lawyer on that. I know a guy who has a daughter. The daughter is a teenager, gay, and has repeatedly try to come out of the closet, but her parents are horrified every time, with disastrous reactions: try to "save" her, hold interventions, try to convert her, teach her about hell, anything to keep their daughter from being gay! So every time, she lurks back in her closet and convinces her parents she's straight. Again. Deep down she'll always be homosexual, but she has to keep up an elaborate lie/facade just so she can hang on to her support group, her family. She loves her family the most of anything in the world, and her life would be a wreck without them... but they keep her in the closet.

I don't want to stir up anything, and I don't bump into her except regularly, and I don't want to interfere, but sometimes I just want to put my hand on her shoulder tell her "It gets better".

[The Doctor]

Truthfully though, the "minorities are privileged" gripe is too widespread for my tastes. I've actually been told I have the exact same "sacred" marriage rights as everyone else: I can marry a woman. I just.... head ... hurty.... argument... no sense makey.... Gah.

Yes you can! You just can't marry the person you love.

[Truean]

Truthfully though, the "minorities are privileged" gripe is too widespread for my tastes. I've actually been told I have the exact same "sacred" marriage rights as everyone else: I can marry a woman. I just.... head ... hurty.... argument... no sense makey.... Gah.

Yes you can! You just can't marry the person you love.

Long as we all understand that's gonna have to be a guy
Obligatory Song Lyric: "What's love got to do with it?"

If marriage is "sacred" and "Christian" then this means I've got a trifecta of horrible options under the "gays can marry the opposite sex like everyone else" view: celibacy, sin, or sacrilege. The celibacy option is the least practical, because at some point, people are going to have sex, period. The sin option appears to make sex outside of wedlock a sin/crime and given that gays can never be married to each other, we're right back to celibacy as a way to avoid this which... eh, not working. Finally we have the sacrilege option as a way to  appear to avoid the "sin" option which is a fraudulent marriage and doing exactly what I'm being told I have the right to do, "marry a woman." If marriage is sacred then doing so for a fraudulent reason is sacrilege not to mention completely unfair to the girl in question and me.

I think the collective group of Christian fundamentalists who both

1) Realize & understand this
2) Still hold onto their anti-gay-marriage beliefs

are usually the ones who are actively trying to "convert" homosexuals to heterosexuality.

An interesting progressive rage though, on that note. No matter how bad Truean's life is when it comes to dealing with the social and legal ramifications of having an attraction to the opposite gender, fact is I'm pretty sure he's currently pretty independent, what with being a lawyer on that. I know a guy who has a daughter. The daughter is a teenager, gay, and has repeatedly try to come out of the closet, but her parents are horrified every time, with disastrous reactions: try to "save" her, hold interventions, try to convert her, teach her about hell, anything to keep their daughter from being gay! So every time, she lurks back in her closet and convinces her parents she's straight. Again. Deep down she'll always be homosexual, but she has to keep up an elaborate lie/facade just so she can hang on to her support group, her family. She loves her family the most of anything in the world, and her life would be a wreck without them... but they keep her in the closet.

I don't want to stir up anything, and I don't bump into her except regularly, and I don't want to interfere, but sometimes I just want to put my hand on her shoulder tell her "It gets better".

Yeah, particulars (and there are a ton of them) aside being disowned is a terrible thing I've had to fend off numerous times while doing unbelievable things. In fact I'm pretty sure it was so elaborate that it had officially reached rigmarole status about seven times over. Meh.

As for "converting" gays, that's where the real scam money is! Have you seen the price of those obscene wilderness crimes against human rights camps where they try and invariably fail to make you straight? I've seen one that cost $30,000! PER KID!!! Why the hell am I working? Holy shit that's some expensive snake oil, and it's the best kind of snake oil, "non refundable!" Granted that's the kind most snake oil is but the point remains more or less, probably. I'm going to stop this paragraph while I can still at least convince myself I'm ahead....

I have half a mind to take my alleged but unprovable mastery of this particular type of chicanery (i.e. not getting caught being gay, which may or may not exist depending upon its convenience to me at any given moment in time) and open up a fraudulent, fraudulent gay to straight conversion camp. Basically I'd market myself as one of those horrid camps, take the bigot parent's money and be completely accepting of their kids as gay while teaching them how not to get caught by their stupid parents. It's the bait and switch to the bait and switch: totally going meta all over it. Long as everyone keeps quiet about it, it should be fine. <-- This is of course, the fatal flaw in the plan, someone's gonna say something, damn it....

Then I guess the parent's complaint wouldn't so much be that they were tricked out of their money, as they weren't tricked out of their money with their chosen anti gay bias. Picky picky.... Somebody pay me already.... This scam entirely legitimate business isn't gonna run itself....

[Vector]

I think a day's waiting period is sensible; only because it's a decision that takes a reasonable amount of effort to reverse, and I hate it when people make hasty decisions on the basis of emotion. The ultrasound and 'education', though, is just perverse.

This issue about it is the usual assumption that women are incapable of thinking through a difficult medical procedure themselves, and need someone else to give them a little help.  Without their asking about it.

Of course, we've also got all kinds of fake "family planning" clinics that don't offer abortions at all, and whose entire function is to administer the guilt trip and convince the woman to keep her baby.  They don't have to state that they aren't an abortion provider anywhere.  Just have their "counselors" dress up in white coats and start the spiel.  Naturally, the names usually start with A and are close to the real abortion clinic, so that women accidentally go to them.


Black Spider Man.  Too bad people are assholes.

Oh my god, what if we paid for birth control for people?  The human race is going to die out!

Be smart about eating, dammit.

The playboy club: it's about female empowerment.

A native american tribe legalizes gay marriage.  Go, go, go!