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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 880449 times)

Pnx

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2445 on: July 28, 2011, 02:16:14 pm »

<snip>

Yup.... I once sobbingly told a psychiatrist I was gay in a therapy session. Her response:

"You're such a nice boy.... I'm so sorry; I really wish you weren't going to hell...." ???
Wow, I'm pretty sure that psychiatrist shouldn't be practicing. Especially since it's not that uncommon for them to work with the worst of people (Rapists, murderers, and such). That kind of belief throws any chance of doing any good out the window.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2446 on: July 28, 2011, 02:26:35 pm »

The problem isn't as much the belief itself (distasteful as it might be) as her willingness to impose it on her patient (particularily in such a way). She should have avoided doing such a thing, and considered transfering the case to someone else if she thought her judgement might be influenced by her prejuices.
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Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2447 on: July 28, 2011, 03:00:14 pm »

Exactly... it's called conflict of interest, dudebros.  I learned about it in my first semester course for engineers, for goodness' sakes.  Don't cut a fucking contract if you're acting without the purest logic.

*sigh*


In today's News Of Fuckuppery:

Disgusting racism.

Disturbing use of photoshop in order to sell products.

Disturbing dynamics in the female experience - Warning, this is from Shakesville and uses the word "Patriarchy" in it.  I'd prefer that comments on it emphasize the content rather than usage of that particular word (once); if I could find another ruddy source for the same idea, I would link y'all to that.

*sigh*

Vector, and the never-ending search for new feminist blogs.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 03:21:41 pm by Vector »
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Maggarg - Eater of chicke

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2448 on: July 28, 2011, 03:40:33 pm »

Exactly... it's called conflict of interest, dudebros.  I learned about it in my first semester course for engineers, for goodness' sakes.  Don't cut a fucking contract if you're acting without the purest logic.

*sigh*


In today's News Of Fuckuppery:

Disgusting racism.

Disturbing use of photoshop in order to sell products.

Disturbing dynamics in the female experience - Warning, this is from Shakesville and uses the word "Patriarchy" in it.  I'd prefer that comments on it emphasize the content rather than usage of that particular word (once); if I could find another ruddy source for the same idea, I would link y'all to that.

*sigh*

Vector, and the never-ending search for new feminist blogs.
Rage progressively building. The first link is nothing short of a miscarriage of justice, that's just completely racist, unfair and stupid. Obviously the potatochopped adverts don't get the same reaction from me, but it's still pretty shitty, both as a marketing scheme and to women in general.


Did try very hard to ignore all the uses of the word Patriarchy, think I succeeded. It's not a comfortable thing to read, obviously, and I kind of skimmed over it rather than really reading it, but that basic point is again, pretty awful. What a world we live in, eh?
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...I keep searching for my family's raw files, for modding them.

Bauglir

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2449 on: July 28, 2011, 03:45:23 pm »

Vector, and the never-ending search for new feminist blogs.

That damn comma is all that stands between this and the mental image of you riding a giant stone eagle through the Intertubes, examining floating text strings for useful content, sighing and taking wing with every failed check. Also, the odd game of Quidditch.

More relevant to the actual discussion, thanks for the links. As the first mentioned offhandedly, at least it's better that we're hearing about this stuff. Progress, anyway. Can't think of anything to add to the analysis right now.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

MonkeyHead

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2450 on: July 28, 2011, 03:52:45 pm »

There is a wonderful bit of law in the UK - those of us in the UK that work with young people (so this applies to me due to contact with students) are expressly forbidden from letting our personal opinions informing our teaching - be these opinions political, social or religious in nature. I am just as forbidden from saying such grossly false statements as "I think homosexuality is wrong" (which just to clear up is not my opinion, just used here as an indicator) as I am statements such as "Scientology appears to me to be a cult"...

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2451 on: July 28, 2011, 04:08:41 pm »

... Thank you for that image >_<  Somehow, it has boosted my self-esteem.  I ... I really appreciate that when I'm here, I can feel sort of... cool... in a dorky way...

Yeah.  I particularly bit the bullet and linked the last one because I've felt that way, pervasively, without understanding why.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Aqizzar

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2452 on: July 28, 2011, 04:10:16 pm »

Vector, and the never-ending search for new feminist blogs.

That shakespearesister one is a little hard to stomach.  Not that I have much to offer you, except that North Carolina's first female governor put her foot down on the wave of ridiculous abortion-harassing laws sweeping the country.  Unfortunately, North Carolina's congress was more than lockstep on this.
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And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
Quote from: PTTG??
The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Pnx

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2453 on: July 28, 2011, 06:42:28 pm »

Disgusting racism.
Quote from: article
Ohio mom Kelley Williams-Bolar was found guilty of a felony for using her father’s home address to enroll her daughters to a better out-of-district school.
I once had a conversation with my principal in high school where he told me the same thing had happened with one of the students. He told me that they were going to pretend it wasn't happening and the two address issues were a clerical error (or something like that).

I guess some people really are dicks... Well, I suppose that's nothing new in this thread.
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Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2454 on: July 28, 2011, 08:32:24 pm »

I hope you got a new one.

I don't remember much after that, except I left.....

Exactly... it's called conflict of interest, dudebros.  I learned about it in my first semester course for engineers, for goodness' sakes.  Don't cut a fucking contract if you're acting without the purest logic.

*sigh*


In today's News Of Fuckuppery:

Disgusting racism.

Disturbing use of photoshop in order to sell products.

Disturbing dynamics in the female experience - Warning, this is from Shakesville and uses the word "Patriarchy" in it.  I'd prefer that comments on it emphasize the content rather than usage of that particular word (once); if I could find another ruddy source for the same idea, I would link y'all to that.

*sigh*

Vector, and the never-ending search for new feminist blogs.

Actually yeah. It really sucked that she was being both sincere and as nice as she could manage to be. She was actually trying to make her voice comforting.... It was like a nurse with a syringe full of poison lying as she smiles while saying "you won't feel a thing...."

As for the article. Basically most straight women want to be noticed by men and it seems unfortunately that attention is negative for so long you get used to it. You then get used to it and somehow in a stockholm syndromey sweet chocolate covered fucked up way you can start to want that attention, which again... is negative. Frankly yeah, I've seen this all too often in my friends. Anyone who has ever seen a truly abusive relationship can understand it too, though that's on a much more specific scale....

On the school district case, I live in Ohio. That was huge news here for quite some time. Eventually the prosecution backed down after the fact when it suddenly occurred to them what they had done..... This is the problem with academically minded people and where the expression "dumbest smart person I know," comes from. The legal theories may have technically made this some sort of theft but just wow.... Look at what they aren't saying.... Naturally, the state chose to only prosecute one person in the whole damn state for this behavior and of course it was a poor black woman. Others had done the exact same thing, some of them for years, but they had not been criminally charged. Bull... shit....

Keep in mind, the Ohio Supreme Court has repeatedly said the way Ohio funds its schools through property tax is unconstitutional. No one argues the state's funding method is constitutional, because everyone knows it isn't. Its just that no one cares and no one wants to fix it. Thus, we continue to have an unconstitutional state educational funding system and will for the foreseeable future....

What's even worse is Gov. Kasich is making the problem so much more terrible by attacking teachers and poorer school district funding from the state level. This means school districts in rich areas will at least have the possibility of raising local levy taxes to make up the difference whereas poor school districts (already at an unconstitutional funding disadvantage) have no chance of offsetting the lost state aid with local taxes....

The problem isn't as much the belief itself (distasteful as it might be) as her willingness to impose it on her patient (particularily in such a way). She should have avoided doing such a thing, and considered transfering the case to someone else if she thought her judgement might be influenced by her prejuices.

Honestly that and just saying almost anything but what she said. Dear god, if a scared kid ever works up the courage and trust in you to sobbingly confess their deepest, most embarrassing secret, say anything but that....
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:36:50 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Andir

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2455 on: July 28, 2011, 08:51:45 pm »

What's even worse is Gov. Kasich is making the problem so much more terrible by attacking teachers and poorer school district funding from the state level. This means school districts in rich areas will at least have the possibility of raising local levy taxes to make up the difference whereas poor school districts (already at an unconstitutional funding disadvantage) have no chance of offsetting the lost state aid with local taxes....
Source?
Edit:  There's this story:
http://www.10tv.com/live/content/onnnews/stories/2011/03/16/story-budget-schools.html
Which sounds like Kasich wants to give parents choice in where their kids go.  It sounds like a voucher system.  Parents would be able to decide what school gets the voucher for their kid's school funding.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:56:02 pm by Andir »
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

SalmonGod

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2456 on: July 28, 2011, 08:59:27 pm »

Anyone who has ever seen a truly abusive relationship can understand it too, though that's on a much more specific scale....

A lot of stuff on a broader scale makes more sense if you compare the dynamics at work to those of an abusive family...

I started paying attention to this after listening to a couple presentations by Derrick Jensen, who suffered a violent father throughout his childhood.  He compares the root social dynamics of modern civilization to those of an abusive household.  I disagree with a lot of things he says, but that lesson has proved very eye-opening.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Andir

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2457 on: July 28, 2011, 09:05:44 pm »

Heck, the more I read about Kasich and schooling it sounds like he has a plan.  It's almost a progressive plan... changing what you claim nobody is changing.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/kasich-promises-to-bring-teach-for-america-to-ohio-1106749.html

More:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/03/kasich-plan-would-let-parents-fix-failing-schools.html
The highlights here:
- If parents disagree with the way the kids are being taught they can petition to have it changed, by law
- School funding at a per pupil level instead of levee based.  So I don't see how poor communities would be disadvantaged here.

Edit2:
It actually looks like it's the normally richer schools that are throwing the biggest fits:
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/04/ohio_gop_lawmakers_plan_change.html
Quote
In Cuyahoga County -- home to some of the deepest cuts in state funding for wealthy schools under Kasich's proposal -- 18 of 31 school districts would be helped by such a provision. The districts are all suburban, with relatively high property values such as Orange, Rocky River, Westlake and Beachwood.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:24:14 pm by Andir »
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Truean

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2458 on: July 28, 2011, 09:47:32 pm »

What's even worse is Gov. Kasich is making the problem so much more terrible by attacking teachers and poorer school district funding from the state level. This means school districts in rich areas will at least have the possibility of raising local levy taxes to make up the difference whereas poor school districts (already at an unconstitutional funding disadvantage) have no chance of offsetting the lost state aid with local taxes....
Source?
Edit:  There's this story:
http://www.10tv.com/live/content/onnnews/stories/2011/03/16/story-budget-schools.html
Which sounds like Kasich wants to give parents choice in where their kids go.  It sounds like a voucher system.  Parents would be able to decide what school gets the voucher for their kid's school funding.
Heck, the more I read about Kasich and schooling it sounds like he has a plan.  It's almost a progressive plan... changing what you claim nobody is changing.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/kasich-promises-to-bring-teach-for-america-to-ohio-1106749.html

More:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/03/kasich-plan-would-let-parents-fix-failing-schools.html
The highlights here:
- If parents disagree with the way the kids are being taught they can petition to have it changed, by law
- School funding at a per pupil level instead of levee based.  So I don't see how poor communities would be disadvantaged here.

Are you kidding? He's hardly progressive in any sense of the word....  I'm well aware of his proposed "solutions." Do you really want me to look for a source saying that cutting state funding hurts education and specifically hurts poorer districts? Do you understand I could inundate you with them? I haven't met an educator who likes Kasich and they tend to write... a lot. Additionally your own articles mention the undeniable spending cuts he is making to education. Tell you what, you're from Columbus, how about some from your local paper?
Are you actually calling me out on not having a source for opposing Kasich's education cuts, especially that they hurt poor schools? You can disagree with me if you want, but don't say there isn't an ocean of opposition to him and tons of written sources to that effect....

Vouchers:
Vouchers are not the way to go. Public education needs widespread reform in order to be effective. Your own article states that the "parent's choice" voucher provision only applies to parents in school districts that perform in the bottom 5% of the state school districts and that is a narrow reform. (Kasich knows we don't have the money to privatize all the under performing schools and you do or should too). If you are in  a school district performing in the bottom 6th-49th% this simply doesn't apply to you and Governor Kasich has no plan to help you at all, or at least his voucher plan doesn't.... Those widespread cuts to education? Those hit hard and vouchers can't provide the cushion he wants people to think they can.

Have you read some of the alleged "remedies" of this crap the governor thinks parents should be able to do in these bottom 5% performing schools?
"• Converting into a charter school. [How the hell is anyone going to pay for that? Unfunded mandate]

• Replacing at least 70 percent of the staff. [And replace them with who and how exactly and with what plan for improvement?]

• Contracting with another school district, an effective nonprofit group or a for-profit group to operate the school. [pray someone else can figure it out]

• Turning the school's operation over to the Ohio Department of Education. [complicated, unspecified, unpredictable results]

• Making "fundamental reforms" to the school's staffing or governance. [what the heck does this even mean?]"

This is crap that sounds good but no one really can practically do. It might get him reelected; but it won't fix jack, which is exactly what he's planning on. Also Vouchers generally have problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher#Legal_challenges

Teach for America
Is also not the way to go because it doesn't address the problem at all. First of all, these people may have no background in education/teaching whatsoever, your article says they are given just 5 weeks of training and don't meet current certification standards! Are you serious, 5 weeks of training? That's supposed to prepare them for the hell that is today's classrooms? Just because someone got good grades in college doesn't mean they understand anything at all much less that they know how to teach material to someone who doesn't get it.... I have had countless professors who were clearly brilliant; they knew their subject matter but damned if they knew how to teach it. How to teach is its own skill and it involves communication. Moreover, we're just gonna can all the existing teachers? Really? The magic pill is to replace what we have with ... what exactly. He doesn't have a plan, he's just throwing out what we have to replace it with something that hasn't been thought out well....

Summation:
No! This man speaks like he's thinking up slogans that will fit on a bumper sticker, because that's exactly what he is doing. Someone needs to role up their sleeves and get into the nitty gritty mechanics of things. Giving only 5% of parents the possibility of a choice if they go through a crazy process doesn't fix the system at large.....

We could just fund our schools like any of the other 49 states do, but no..... Instead let's attack teachers along with police, firemen and every other public employee in Ohio, which the governor is expressly against....


Edit2:
It actually looks like it's the normally richer schools that are throwing the biggest fits:
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/04/ohio_gop_lawmakers_plan_change.html
Quote
In Cuyahoga County -- home to some of the deepest cuts in state funding for wealthy schools under Kasich's proposal -- 18 of 31 school districts would be helped by such a provision. The districts are all suburban, with relatively high property values such as Orange, Rocky River, Westlake and Beachwood.

Wow, let me spell this out for you. I know Cuyhoga County.... They aren't hurting in those districts at all in the slightest. They are getting cuts, everyone is. The rich folks are just complaining more. "Deepest Cuts?" Under "No Child Left Behind." The top performing schools got more money, and these were the top performing schools. I have been to each and every one of those districts, they actually have something to cut in terms of funding. However, in downtown Cleveland (Glennville, Marshal, etc) THERE'S NOTHING TO CUT. These districts are already operating on a bare bones budget and barely surviving. Cutting their funding means that these schools are in serious danger of shutting down and/or having to consolidate.

These articles miss the mark entirely.... "OMG! They're taking more from Rocky River than they are from the piss poor inner city Cleveland Ghetto Schools. Waaaah!" These rich little morons.... [headdesk] What would you like them to take away from people who already have nothing? This is exactly what I'm talking about with overeducated morons with absolutely no god damn practical sense whatsoever who will point to these numbers and say they are the most disadvantaged by the recent cuts....
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 10:13:03 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

blackmagechill

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #2459 on: July 28, 2011, 10:00:07 pm »

I'm kind of wondering what this "Patriarchy" collective is. I always feel that I shouldn't read the Shakesville because I'm looking at someone meant for someone else to look at and that I, as a male who isn't doing anything about women's rights or a victim of something (not that I know of), that I am intruding in some hallowed ground for someone who isn't a major demo and has the most rights or whatever (the hetero-white-male demo to be specific).
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